Re: OT: Scotland and Vax Passports

OOI, how do you know he didn't infect anyone else?

Or if you're not sure, why do you think it was highly unlikely?

Perhaps you think these questions are irrelevant?

As luck would have it (not a lot of luck, I am fairly antisocial) from fearing I may have it to it being confirmed I had no contact with anyone.

I didn't ask what society meant, I know what it means.

Do you think we live in a way that adheres to this idea of a society, I don't see a massive amount of equality.

I'd just love to know what people think they've done to earn the right to expect others to make sacrifices for them. I mean, for example, I doubt you are old enough for 'I was in a war you know!'.

Apologies, I hadn't realised I was on trial.

But, Dave, I can't answer the question because I don't know whether the hospitals are cluttered up with unvaccinated covid cases or not. Are they?

I've done a quick Google and while there are articles suggesting such there are as many articles suggesting that the majority of those in hospital are vaccinated. I'd be more interested in their age and state of health so if you want to develop this discussion feel free to get hold of the numbers.

Anyway, stick your fingers in your ears again while I state an indisputable FACT...... Of the dozens of people I know who've had covid, *one* went to hospital and he has underlying health issues and has since had both jabs.

I guess you?ll dismiss this as ?fake news? as it doesn?t fit your world view..

And I take it you self-isolated for 10 days from first symptoms. That's something. I gather (from bits I've picked up in the papers) that only about

Living in England. Just keeps getting better ;-)

They most certainly are. How can you not know this - the hospitalised cases are published each day with regular references to unvaccinated patients.

I know about 10, 4 have had it bad. Two have debilitating long covid - one over a year. One spent a few days in an ICU - where he caught pneumonia there or elsewhere in the hospital. Still signed off sick 3 months in. One was in an induced coma last time I asked - think he's OK now. None vulnerable,

Double jabbed plus booster, but still caught it. Apparently very mild attack, but i've got at leat 3 Long Covid symptoms. I hope they pass.

charles snipped-for-privacy@candehope.me.uk> wrote

Yeah, vaccination has never been claimed to do more than significantly reduce the risk of infection. Its much more effective against severe disease and death.

Which ones ?

I don’t think that there have been any examples of individuals where they haven't, particularly with the fully vaccinated. Tho it can take a very long time, more than a year or so. Tho I spose you can argue that we haven't really tested that yet given that its only been going for a couple of years yet.

feeling weak (thing si could lift a couple on months ago are now too heavy), brain running slow (brain fog), sleeping badly.

Then you'd know that society means some obligations. So you either wanted to invent a new definition, or didn't understand the meaning.

Another all or nothing type then. Where everything is black or white.

The idea you expect and take nothing from society is laughable.

Well, you certainly aren't then. So just what was your point?

I'd suggest you do the tiniest bit of research. Figures for those in hospital with Covid are given every day. You must live in a very odd bubble if you've not seen them.

A quick Google seems to explain your lack of understanding.

Ah right. Hospitals should be reserved for the young and fit then.

Does this mean you dispute the near 150000 who have died of Covid - or just that you don't care as many might well have also been older than you and maybe in worse health?

But keep digging this hole for yourself. You must like appearing to be the least caring person on this group - which is quite an achievement.

I'm just not obsessed (or open to brainwashing).

No, I'm merely wondering if those in hospital are elderly or unhealthy.

People die. I'm fairly sure I won't live forever. We could focus on the tens of millions of people who are alive and well but that's not fashionable for some reason? Can anyone explain why? It's been a mystery to me all my adult life.

Nobody is coming across well in this thread.

I think 'Pamela' wins that award with their views on mental health.

I'll start a thread on that when I can be arsed.

That statement is a hallmark of conspiracy theorists. A few weeks ago I posted the following extracts on the mistakes such people (including you) make in their thinking.

"WHY PEOPLE BELIEVE IN CONSPIRACY THEORIES"

----------------- START -----------------

People are drawn to conspiracy theories in order to satisfy or in an attempt to satisfy three important psychological motives.

The FIRST of these motives is .... the need for knowledge and certainty and I guess the motive or desire to have information. And when something major happens, when a big event happens, people naturally want to know why that happened. They want an explanation and they want to know the truth. ....

... people with lower levels of education tend to be drawn to conspiracy theories. And we don't argue that's because people are not intelligent. It's simply that they haven't been allowed to have, or haven't been given access to the tools to allow them to differentiate between good sources and bad sources or credible sources and non- credible sources.

The SECOND set of motives, we would call existential motives. And really they just refer to people's needs to be or to feel safe and secure in the world that they live in. And also to feel that they have some kind of power or autonomy over the things that happen to them as well. So again, when something happens, people don't like to feel powerless. ... Research has shown that people who do feel powerless and disillusioned do tend to gravitate more towards conspiracy theories.

The THIRD set of motives we would call social motives and those refer to people's desire to feel good about themselves as individuals and also feel good about themselves in terms of the groups that they belong to. ... potentially one way of doing that is to feel that you have access to information that other people don't necessarily have ... this is quite a common rhetorical tool that people use when they talk about conspiracy theories, that everybody else is some kind of sheep, but that they know the truth. ....

So people who have an overinflated sense of the importance of the groups that they belong to, but at the same time, the feeling that those groups are underappreciated, those kinds of feelings as well, draw people towards conspiracy theories .... It's linked to the idea of need for uniqueness, as well. That's another, I guess, narcissistic notion that you have. You're in possession of information that other people don't have. You're different to other people and it makes you stand apart. But yes, narcissism at an individual level has been associated in quite a few studies now with belief in conspiracy theories.

.... In terms of age, we do. In our research, we generally find that older people believe in conspiracy theories less than younger people do. .... that does tend to show up pretty much all of the time. In terms of gender, at least in the research that myself and my colleagues have conducted, we've never found any gender differences in terms of conspiracy belief.

..... in the literature it's often been found that if people believe in one conspiracy theory, then they're likely to believe in others.

... We thought people would not entertain these two conspiracy theories at the same time, but it turned out that they did, or at least they were prepared to entertain the idea that both of those [contradictory] things might be true.

----------------- END -----------------

Why don't you see a psychiatrist if you have problems with "mental well-being"?

Why not get them to look into pathological narcissism and selfishness?

Why do you think i'm on board with conspiracy theories?

That's a highly mischaevous presentation of data:

"In the context of very high vaccine coverage in the population, even with a highly effective vaccine, it is expected that a large proportion of cases, hospitalisations and deaths would occur in vaccinated individuals, simply because a larger proportion of the population are vaccinated than unvaccinated and no vaccine is 100% effective."

From:

I'd expect the answer to be in that document. Drilling down on statistics to justify your position is not the way to go IMO. You're not an epidemiologist, nor is anyone on this NG AFAIK. Just use a bit of common sense, and even if you don't care about yourself, think about others during this pandemic.