OT - What will be completely unacceptable in 100 years - or even 50

[Max Demian]

Nominative determinism.

[michael adams]

Like this, you mean ?

Can Veganism Help With Stress And Make You A Calmer Person?

It doesn't appear to be working in your case, does it ?

Clearly any benefit you may be deriving either physically or ethically/emotionally by adopting a vegan diet, is being totally negated by the additional stress you're clearly placing yourself under, in trying to force your views on a largely unappreciative audience.

michael adams

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[michael adams]

[bert]

Wacking up? It's £570 already. But putting it up further won't mean I can afford a new electric car.

[The Natural Philosopher]

That's the bunny!

[Tim Lamb]

Blush!

[Robin]

plus Timothy is another name for meadow cat's tail - still used as animal feed?

[Dave Plowman (News]

You have to remember that the likes of Turnip think of socialism in a theoretical way. Bit like Trump. And refuse to acknowledge that it can work in practice. But only consider countries with socialist in their title - for their purposes.

[Tim Lamb]

I think my mother had something more biblical in mind but yes, Timothy is grown in a mixture for hay, grazing and silage. Good bulk and drought resistance but not hugely palatable.

>

[soup]

Did you note the use of the word eventually?

After a period of it being uneconomic to mass extract and use as general fuel (ie only the very rich getting their hands on some to keep their 'hobby' cars going)there will be NO more to extract and we will have to use other sources of energy. As I said I will be long gone by then and won't care .

[The Natural Philosopher]

Right now it would be possible to produce road synthetic diesel from nuclear power at the same price it is now, with the tax on it. The fact remains that hydrocarbon fuel of the diesel-kerosene-heating oil-petrol is in the sweet spot between too f****ng dangerous (hydrogen and methane) and too damned hard to use (bunker oil),and it has an energy density that is about right for road water and air usage, given that half the fuel (air based oxygen) is widely available above the surface everywhere.

Maybe something will replace it, but I see nothing that capable yet.

When it runs out we make it.

[T i m]

<snip>

Like trying to use the word 'humane' with 'slaughter' and think that's any consolation to anything that is going to die (given the biggest issue is the taking of the life unnecessarily, not so much how it's taken). ;-(

Cheers, T i m

[Tim Streater]

And it's not too f****ng complicated, unlike fuel cells, lithium batteries, etc.

[Dave Plowman (News]

I think your needle has stuck. ;-)

[T i m]

I bet that's what people have said to anyone striving for justice on anything over the years ... ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[michael adams]

Only in the past 100 years or so. Before that far more effective methods were often used.

Not that I'd necessarily advocate such measures myself, at least not in all cases.

michael adams

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[Tim+]

With governments all over the world dedicating themselves to reducing their CO2 output, you seriously think that they?re gonna go down the synthetic fuel route just for your convenience?

Nah, I don?t think so. Fancy a wager? ;-)

Tim

[The Natural Philosopher]

You only see a political and commercial reality. I see a more fundamental reality based on physics and engineering.

Physics and engineering theory means not having to try it out to know that it wont actually work.

Its not *my* convenience Tim, that's your bigotry talking. its nature and fundamental economics. Nations that really try to do 'renewable energy' will simply be invaded by Arabs driving diesel tanks and petrol pickup trucks with mounted machine guns.:-) Whilst their tanks are still on charge because its winter, there is no sun, and the wind aint blowing.

I will tell you that in ten years, renewable energy and climate change will either be a distant memory, or western civilisation and democracy will. In the end its your choice. You just don't know it yet. Because you are not a physicist or an engineer. And you haven't been to 'third world' countries.

If we don't embrace nuclear power we are dead in the water, And if we don't sacrifice silly greenness to common sense when it comes to the military, we are defenceless against someone else who does.

Massive deployment of nuclear power and the surplus being used to generate hydrocarbon fuel is the only way to defend the country. And indeed run it without imports of energy products beyond a few hundred tines of uranium a year. And even that could be sucked out of the sea. Syngas and Synfuel leverages all of te existing infrastructure of not only hydrocarbon fuelled medium and long haul transport, but also allows the use of those industries that need hydrocarbons - or indeed carbon - fuel as a feedstock. Metal smelting where carbon rich heat sources reduce metallic oxides - the cement that goes to make windmill bases is massively dependent on natural gas or coal to reduce limestone to the various active alkalis that make up Portland cement. The fertiliser industry on which agricultural output utterly depends uses natural gas as a feedstock...as does the whole plastics industry that is practically indispensable in the making of anything at all these days, especially electrical stuff, like wind turbines...

...But you are blissfully ignorant of all this dirty hands technical shit - like any politician you think you can wave a magic wand, virtue signal a few electric cars and windmills, and things will continue as normal.

I know they won't, Not believe, have an opinion, guess, or wish fervently. *Know*. Because the *same* engineering that allows people to build renewable energy machines also predicts how they will behave, and how much fossil energy and feedstock they take to produce. It is simply

*unsustainable*. You can't build renewable energy machines with renewable energy. It's that simple.

Ergo if we are not using fossil for primary energy, we wont have any primary energy to speak of and since civilisation as we know it is utterly dependent on it, civilisation will collapse. Germany, ran out of petrol in the Battle of the Bulge, and that was the end of Germany militarily.

A renewable Britain would be poor, incapable of surviving and totally able to be invaded by a few third worlders with AK 47 copies and access to petrol and diesel.

But a nuclear Britain with 20 years of stockpiled fissile material, and the ability to extract more from the sea, its own reprocessing industry and and a strategic reserve of Ajvet and Diesel, would be unassailable by such a force.

Add in a nuclear deterrent and some atomic submarines, and no one would dare *try*.

Synthetic fuel is expensive, but it's very clean and it's very renewable, given access to lots of primary nuclear energy. And nuclear energy is behind all the 'renewable' energy that *doesn't* work - where else does the sun get its heat from? Burning pixie dust? Why *not* cut out the middle man and have nice little suns here on earth? Where we can can control them?

Batteries are great secondary stores of primary energy but are only as good as batteries can be, and that is not good enough yet for transport and other mechanical power that needs to stay off grid for more than a few hours, and the grid itself represents a huge single point of failure and vulnerability which will be exposed in due course by some random event associated with too much 'renewable' and other unconventional energy on the grid.

People are already talking about using hydrogen as a battery - that's a syngas in itself! Its only a small step to take that and add carbon dioxide, and make some methane, petrol or diesel...

[tabbypurr]

The heavy weight of steam tractors was a real problem, it compacted the ground. That problem would return if a tractor had enough battery to work all day.

And don't mention food prices & consequent starvation.

NT

[tabbypurr]

Yes

We don't know whether oil supplies are renewing at an economic to mine rate or not. If not, we will all be long gone & the world will have greatly changed by then. It's not something we need lose sleep over.

NT