OT: VE day warplanes

[Fat Sam]

They could do worse....We should be looking to JSF....

[Mike]

Ah yes, the multi-purpose plane that's designed by committee so will likely be average at everything :-)

I think there was a pilot on a BBC prog a while back who also said "No stealth, no use."

[Alex Heney]

Rubbish.

I'm not talking of usefulness to the authorities (although of course that is why *they* want them)

Again, rubbish.

They are useful to help prove your identity when you want to. Whether everybody has them or not is irrelevant to that.

They are of little use to the authorities unless they are compulsory.

Rubbish.

*IF* you have a society which is not free, then granted, ID cards are used to help the authorities maintain control.

But ID cards do not turn a society into one of those.

Presumably, you think the population of the majority of European countries are all slaves then?

I don't.

[Alex Heney]

So you have to do that in Spain, or Belgium, or Switzerland then do you?

All of which are countries that have had compulsory ID cards for many years.

Again, no realistic likelihood of that happening.

Such as?

Whilst I am not a fan of an awful lot of the legislation passed in my lifetime, I'm not sure that there is much wrong with the few bits that require us to prove who we are.

And I'm not at all sure which laws you mean when you call them "repressive". Every law is repressive to some, or it wouldn't be necessary. So which ones *you* consider repressive is not something I would like to guess at.

At least you have been giving some rational arguments here though.

Although unfortunately, all based on suggesting that remote possibilities

*will* happen.

And while it is possible that those things will happen, if they do, I think we have rather more to worry about than ID cards.

Absolutely not.

And I really cannot conceive of the mindset that thinks it does.

It could be, if ID cards had anything whatsovere to do with being treated like an animal.

[Alex Heney]

Yep, that is a good argument against them.

I certainly agree that the idea they will help to reduce crime or in some way help in the fight against terrorism is complete bullshit.

In fact I think they will help in the fight against terrorism in just the same way that the war against Iraq has made the world a safer place :-(

[Alex Heney]

Fine.

That demolishes your entire argument.

[Alex Heney]

No, we don't have to explain that to you at all.

The fact that it is expensive and will not achieve the aims it is stated to have is irrelevant.

It will fulfil its main purpose, which is that the government are seen to be doing something about the threat of terrorism and increasing crime levels.

The fact that (as usual) the "doing something" will be almost totally ineffectual; is irrelevant.

[Fat Sam]

Multi-purpose has it's place.... At the minute, if an enemy decides to take out whatever station is home to our F3 assets, we're left with a severely stunted air defence capapbility.... If they decide to take out whatever station is home to our GR4A assets, we're left with a severely stunted recce capability....

If we go down a multi-purpose route, then this problem dissapears....

If one recce station gets destroyed, we simply strap recce pods onto the underside of a bomber equipped aircraft....

If a bomber station gets destroyed, we change the weapons fit on a fighter, and upload new software to the avionics....

We already have aircraft that we can do this with....They've been in service for quite some time....The Jaguar for example, or the Harrier....

Admittedly, our past experience with committee designed combat aircraft has produced some pretty ropey results (tornado and typhoon), but the same process has also provided us with some excellent aircraft like the Puma....

[Mike]

I think a couple of squadrons of second hand F15s would be a cheaper and effective alternative with the added side effect of keeping the RAF doing what it's supposed to be doing - guarding our shores.

[Depresion]

He could have if he wanted to.

Yep, I can see them charging you with wasting police time, assault had you attempted to prevent the photographer from leaving and probably a few other things.

Face it you got lucky this time next time you may not.

[Mike]

The local police are well aware of the nesting birds and would have dealt with the matter accordingly. Believe it or not, rural police understand rural matters.

Not in the slightest.

[axel]

Now... let me think, Russia used to require an ID card to allow people to move internally.

So does the UK, for no good reason, if you wish to travel by air.

I can well imagine the same would be the case for travel by rain if ID cards are introduced.

Axel

[axel]

You do in Holland just for buying a monthly bus/tram pass.

Axel

[axel]

Travel is already restricted that way.

Axel

[Martin]

What's wrong with these 2?

[Brimstone]

And what would it do for our aerospace industry?

[Martin]

Perhaps we should have kept the Lightnings, or resurrected TSR-2

[Martin]

That is a totally ridiculous situation

I have farming relations!

[Martin]

What charges would have been created?

I have farming relations (in Cornwall), also I grew up in the countryside, so I know how to wander around farm land without damaging crops or scaring wildlife - eg blackberry picking.

As to Police - they have to remain impartial

[Martin]

About the nesting birds and the photographer - did you ask him why or what he was taking pictures of?

I have always found that sorting amicably is best!