OT: "Pedestrian" lights

[Ian Jackson]

In message [e-mail]>, Rod Speed [e-mail] writes

Like I said, it's essentially a draconian example of 'mission creep'. I'm sure God really only wanted people to have one day off each week in order for them to have a bit of a rest, or to run around and enjoy them selves and generally have a good time. However, the ruling classes probably thought that this was far too good for them, and they even might get to like it - and they might not want to return to work the next day. They therefore decided at make the day off as miserable and unenjoyable as possible, so that the workers would only be too glad to get back to work the following day. [Well, that's my theory!]

[Radio Man]

Jim wouldn't give you the shit off his skin.

He's a bigoted jockish simpleton.

[Fredxx]

I disagree, the rules are to promote the success of the religion. The metric of success is an expanding congregation. Having one day off per week must be an advantage, perhaps to increase the likelihood of procreation. The Roman Catholics also do it by banning contraception.

Other religions have faded from existence, successful ones maintain the family unit, and have as many children as possible in the prevailing conditions.

Not lending to your own creed is an example of where the heavies are only sent to other creeds. Similarly borrowing off another creed can only put the other creed in a bad light when they want their pound of flesh back, and so on.

Religion creates cohesion, especially when you fight for your god, and of course everyone else will fight for theirs. Why do you think Deutsche Christen was formed?

Mission creep is a result of a pendulum swing, it always swings further than where common sense might prevail. Some religions specifically want to make a point, to make the subject a near outcast and different to those around them, like taking their prayer mat to work etc. Again support from the elders of their creed encourages this differential even odd behaviour.

[tim...]

the "solution" imposes it upon others

[Bob Eager]

Our Bosch ovenm has a 'Sabbath mode', where it will stay on at a specified heat for a specified time, to keep food warm.

[GB]

The button is still active, if that's what you mean.

[GB]

I thought most ovens will stay on for a timed period and then switch themselves off? At least, we have a Bosch oven, and that is one of the standard options on the timer. It seems a reasonably useful feature.

[tim...]

think of the global warming

[GB]

You are perfectly entitled to say that you don't understand the distinction being made. You can even say that you would like someone, who does understand, to explain it to you. However, to say that it's hypocritical surely requires that you properly understand what's going on in the first place?

It is you deciding, really, as religious Jews will happily flush the toilet on the sabbath.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Well yes and no. it would be possible to construct an identical button requiring an identical push to summon a lift or to flush a toilet

If one is 'work' and the other is not, then there is an issue not of the button or its push itself, but of the result associated with it.

Which begs the question of what an Orthodox Jew might do confronted with a totally unmarked button whose effect is unknown

Bu that is a machine doing something to order controlled by a button, just as a lift or a crossing is.

Care to explain what is different about crossing a road to flushing a turd?

[Fredxx]

The explanation will always be sufficient for a believer to believe is satisfactory. To others it will not, as pressing a lever on a bog will to most of use constitute more work than activating a contactless switch.

Hypocrisy is saying pressing a lever on a bog constitutes less work than activating a contactless switch.

Hence the hypocrisy.

[GB]

He wouldn't touch it.

Would you? It might operate the sprinkler system or the trap door into the basement. :)

It's hard to explain in a few words, but have a look at this:

[GB]

Indeed, that's correct. And, any religious Jew would agree with you.

The problem is that 'work' is a mistranslation of the Hebrew, as there's no good approximation in English. It's not something that can be explained in a word or two.

[The Natural Philosopher]

So 'transferring within a domain' apples to humans, but not their bodily products, then?

[The Natural Philosopher]

It seems to be that flushing the toilet definitely contravenes this:

"According to halacha, all areas are divided into four categories:[4][5]

A private domain (Reshut HaYachid) A public domain, or thoroughfare (Reshut HaRabbim) An open area (Karmelit) An exempt area (Makom Petur)

The open area is defined as not bounded by walls or fences, and which also is not traversed by large numbers of people. By the Torah, the open area is considered an exempt area; however rabbinic enactments treat it more strictly.[6]

Two activities are biblically forbidden:

Transferring an object from a private domain to a public thoroughfare, or vice versa.[7] Transferring an object a distance of 4 cubits in a public thoroughfare.[8]

In addition, three activities are rabbinically forbidden:

Transferring an object from a private domain to an open area, or vice versa. Transferring an object a distance of 4 cubits in an open area. Transferring an object between two different private domains."

Transferring a turd from a private domain to a public sewer would seem to be easily understood to violate this principle

[GB]

:)

[Bob Eager]

We are talking up to 72 hours here.

[Tim Streater]

So, nothing to do with God, then.

[Fredxx]

If we are hanging on the semantics of a single word, then it suggests it is being taken to mean, whatever it is chosen to mean.

If there was an old definition of a word, then fair enough, but I don't see how that could be translated into the breaking or making of a circuit. Otherwise the interruption or start of a flow of water would be treated the same. Flushing a toilet will instigate a flow of water and refilling of a cistern. In the same way a switch on a remote will turn the TV on, or start a sequence of lights at a crossing.

[GB]

It's a like a technical term, which has a very precise meaning for those involved in that technology.

I don't expect the rules of Judaism to appeal to you. Indeed, they don't appeal to me either. However, they are internally consistent.