OT: "Pedestrian" lights

[Jethro_uk]

Waiting for SWMBO to complete a hospital appointment, I was parked up listening to the radio, within sight of a set of pedestrian traffic lights.

Well, I say "pedestrian" but I noticed that over an hour they quite happily cycled every 4 minutes with no-one pressing the button.

Along with all the coned off roads where there's f*ck all work been going on for months, I wonder if this is a backdoor traffic control initiative ?

(Another thing I have noticed is that a lot of traffic light junctions appear to have adaptive timings that allow a lot more cars through each way when busy).

[GB]

That might be the norm, as some people might not be able to press the button, etc?

[nightjar]

That is not an approved operating cycle for either Pelican(1) or Puffin(2) or Toucan(3) crossings, so possibly a malfunction in the pedestrian detection system. There will be a grey (usually) box nearby with a telephone number to report malfunctions and an ID number stencilled on the box. IME, phoning a report usually sees an engineer attend within an hour or two.

(1) Has pedestrian stop/go indicators on the opposite side of the road from the push button: the original pedestrian controlled light system which is being phased out in favour of (2) and (3)

(2) Has one button with integral stop/go indicators on the same side of the road as the waiting pedestrians. Uses pedestrian detectors to cancel button pushes if nobody is actually waiting.

(3) as (2), but for both pedestrians and cyclists, with two sets of buttons on each side of the crossing.

That is the preferred system if there is adequate space on the pavement for pedestrians to wait.

[NY]

I have heard it said (and I believe it's true) that pedestrian lights in Orthodox Jewish areas are set to have a pedestrian cycle every n minutes so Jews can cross the road on the Sabbath when they are not allowed to operate any equipment - and pressing the button on pedestrian lights falls foul of this rule.

Ah,

confirms what I am saying.

[Bob Eager]

(4) Pegasus crossing. A bit like (2), but with two sets of buttons, the second at a high level. And lights with horses rather than humans on them.

[nightjar]

If they are for horses to use, shouldn't the button be at hoof level? ;-)

[nightjar]

Wouldn't a Zebra crossing also allow them to cross without operating anything?

[Fredxx]

Some might also refuse to push the button on the excuse that their religion bars such mechanical work. I've never seen the same people think for more than a second on changing the TV channel using a switch on their remote control.

Perhaps a proximity detector would be more appropriate?

[nightjar]

Puffin and Toucan crossings already use them to check that there are people standing at the crossing after a button push. That allows nuisance presses to be cancelled. It should not be too difficult to adapt that to detect people standing there on the Sabbath and actuate the crossing. However, I suspect that could still be interpreted as operating electrical equipment on the Sabbath.

[Andy Burns]

Ahh, so the voice feature on some TV remotes is a Shabbat feature?

[Bob Eager]

I grew up in Brighton. Around 1960, I remember a completely automated crossing such as this, using simple lights and photosensors. The equipment was built into cast iron pillars that were part of the fencing/ lights.

The castings survived for years, but I see that they are gone now. For anyone interested, the crossing was between the Palace Pier and the Royal Albion Hotel.

[Brian Gaff (Sofa]

They are normally interconnected and these days have traffic sensing loops as well. Also of course we have discovered that Toucan crossings are inherently unsafe as cyclists seem to weave all over the pedestrian bit which has no tactile delineation meaning those with poor sight after letting go of the rotating cone when the light goes green often has to go slowly due to try to avoided the weaving cycles and the crossing can time out before they get across. Add to that that the cyclists on the road wanting to turn left but the lights are against them cycle up the dropped curb, round the corner on the footway and then down it again round the corner. How is it that we seem in this country to just ride roughshod over the highway code? The new code out in October is even more stringent on the rights of the pedestrian, but who is going to police this? Brian

[alan_m]

I've noticed that in the very early hours of the morning some lights cycle through the complete sequence, including pedestrian lights but when traffic appears they revert to a more normal priority sequence of allowing the traffic through in the most speedy way. If there are only a couple of cars wanting different onward flows the sequence changes and can be very quick.

My pet annoyance is that during the day the length of the pedestrian crossing. Often the pedestrian has crossed the road and walked another half mile before traffic is allowed to flow again :)

[GB]

Yes, it certainly would.

There's a complicated junction on the North Circular Road at Henlys Corner, where one of the pedestrian crossings is automatically operated in the way described above. However, it makes no difference to the traffic flow, as it only operates during the red phase of the traffic lights. It's more of a timer for pedestrians, so they know how much time they have to cross 3 lanes of traffic.

To be frank, on a lot of these crossings at traffic light controlled junctions, I don't know what the buttons usefully contribute?

[newshound]

You would probably have more success making them nose-operated.

[GB]

The most orthodox people probably don't have a TV in their home, and, if they did, they certainly would not have it switched on on the sabbath, let alone switch channel.

These are people who take their religion almost as seriously as you take your atheism. :)

[nightjar]

Especially if there were something edible attached.

[nightjar]

Depending upon the junction layout, they can extend the red light period when all traffic that wants to use that bit of road is stopped.

[Ian Jackson]

The same goes for lifts (as in that link). In one hotel in Tel Aviv I made the mistake of getting in the Shabbat lift (one of three in the lobby). It automatically stopped on every floor. My room was on the top (17th?) floor. Doh!! [Moral - learn what the words 'Shabbat lift' look like in Hebrew.]

[nightjar]

A system designed to ensure that traffic does not have to wait forever at a red light if one of the traffic has failed. There used to be a junction light in Glasgow where, approaching from the minor side road, I sometimes had to get out and hit the control box hard to get them to change.

Since the Puffin crossing was introduce in 1992, all new and upgraded crossings have had pedestrian detectors, to avoid that problem.