OT:I really, really want to like Linux ...

[tabbypurr]

I'm using mint again, but not cinnamon, it's a RAM pig.

NT

[Richard]

I don't see any memory issues. At present it shows 32% of 16GB in use.

[Richard]

Oh, that's with Opera having 40 tabs open and Thunderbird doing this.

[Fredxx]

Not necessarily. It will mean extensions will be more tightly controlled and less crashes.

[Martin Barclay]

Exactly. I've seen a few newbies, in the past, blame an app (like Thunderbird for example) that doesn't do what they expect/want on Linux. I wonder, if it didn't do what they expected or want in Windows, would they blame Microsoft Windows or the app?

[Martin Barclay]

And if he goes into a Linux group with the attitude he's posted above, it's quite likely he'll be ignored.

[Adrian Caspersz]

DOM Inspector 2.0.16.1-signed still works with Thunderbird (the latest

52.7). I've got it installed here.

It might not work with Quantum / Firefox, but that's something else.

[dennis]

None of the stuff you run has anything to do with linux. Linux is just a kernel and does sod all useful on its own. Nearly all of the stuff you run will run on other kernels including windows. It takes effort to write stuff that doesn't run on windows

You accepted their license conditions so its not uninvited. You can delay them if you want to.

[dennis]

If they are linux users they would blame microsoft whatever the app was.

[Adrian Caspersz]

Yawn.

I could also uselessly state "Microsoft is not the name of an OS, it's the name of a computer company".

"My hoover is made by Panasonic."

etc ....

Depends which poison you are swallowing. Some goes down the same, some not so.

If you are writing things that interface to other applications and the GUI environment, there is a much more richer feature filled existence of that in Windows. Hence development in that area is easier.

But for web based things, or things targeted elsewhere it's not really relevant.

[Fredxx]

I think you've just hit the nail on the head.

With Linux there aren't reams of license conditions where a simple, well hidden, paragraph is likely to shaft you.

[T i m]

I've been 'playing with' Linux since I first installed an AX.25 Packet Radio node from 3 x 1.4MB floppies. SLS 0.9 and pretty well every version of many distros in between.

I've done the same several times (but generally dual boot, 'just in case').

Yup. When it goes on easily it generally runs 'fine'. Getting it on isn't always straight forward though, especially if (like most) you are hoping to run it on whatever hardware you happen to have, rather than something you have specifically researched to be 'Linux ready' (whatever that actually means).

A lovely kludge. Same there isn't equivalent 'Linux stuff' you could use natively? And why isn't there ... is what you are doing so esoteric that there couldn't be a useable Linux version of it?

I am generally 'happy with Linux' (as it can install easily and generally runs ok), till you find it won't shut down (2008 Mac Book) or won't support the video graphics properly or have applications that are anywhere near as good as those on Windows. Or run the latest games or iTunes or Sage or many many other things that many people actually use. If you don't do any of that stuff, or want to run any vehicle diagnostics then you could well be ok.

Now, if you just use it as a WP or Web terminal you really do have the pick of the crop. ;-)

Is the right attitude, for any rational person. ;-)

They are only a 'means to an end' any anyone turning such into a lifestyle choice or crusade really needs to get out more. ;-)

I install Linux, mostly dual boot on nearly all of my numerous machines (I'm a 'hardware guy' so often get given stuff and like to fix it up etc) and will often boot into Linux when doing so is quicker and when I know I only really need a web terminal.

If I'm cropping pictures then I've not found any Linux program to replace Irfanview. I can't update my Garmin or TomTom GPS because there aren't Linux apps for them (even though they probably run on Linux themselves). If I want to update the firmware (or backup / recover) my phone I use Samsungs Smart Switch (or whatever Windows app comes with my phone).

I actually built a server with Linux in mind but after several days trying to get it working doing even the basic stuff I gave up and paid for Window Home Server and it was on and doing loads more than *I* could ever do with Linux in no time (and doing stuff that even the Linux geeks couldn't match).

But in spit of all the and what other may make up for themselves, amongst any who *actually* know me I'm considered a Linux advocate, it's just that I'm very realistic with my expectations of / for it (for ordinary users).

Cheers, T i m

[Bill]

In message , T i m writes

=

But Windows 10 just announced on a laptop here that it is a service and would restart in10 minutes. It also won't easily allow you to format in FAT32 via the gui. Just 2 things that hit me today. My complaint is that it can not now be called an operating system in the true sense of the words.

I have largely moved back to W7 and XP, plus one Linux test laptop and a few Linux machines as server/backups. My main audio machines have never moved from XP.

It's all a bit depressing.

[Jeff Layman]

What crashes? I started using TB (3.0.1) 8 years ago under Win7, then under Ubuntu 14.10 just over 3 years ago, and for the last couple of years under Mint 17.3 (now as TB 52.7.0). Maybe I've just been lucky, but I can't remember it crashing at all.

[The Natural Philosopher]

No.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Well its a bit like having a divorce: There is a tendency to fall sobbing into the arms of the first bird who appears to be rational.

After a while you get over it anbd become just good friends .

[Fredxx]

Most issues seem to be from flaky profiles. For Firefox one recommend way of improving stability is to do a virgin install and import the old profile.

The only application where right-click stops working, and I am no longer able to access the menu (3 short horizontal bars) is Firefox. I have to restart it for it all to work again.

In the past I have known all the Thunderbird folders lose their ordering, a royal pain, otherwise I agree it is quite stable.

[Richard]

Thunderbird does seem to be clunky at times. I just have the Quick Folders extension installed.

Hardly use Firefox as it seems to take up too much of my time trying to get it working after updates. Opera does it for me. Built in VPN and adblocking and not so many issues when updates happen.

[T i m]

Then set it otherwise?

Better (for the vast majority) that the updates get done unlike Linux, where they can't be set by the user to be applied automatically, they never get done?

It won't?

But massively trivial compared with the long list of things it won't even do for most 'ordinary people'. If you are a coder or geek and are on an anti MS crusade I'm sure losing out like that is a small price to pay. For most it's simply a dealbreaker.

Yet is used transparently by millions every day as one?

I'm still on XP for my daily desktop (for now) daughter and the Mrs are on W7 and I have W10 (dual boot as the primary OS) on what was going to be my Linux replacement box for the XP machine. Except there were so many things that couldn't be done on Linux that I *needed* that it just became yet another Linux 'play' box.

I have a Raspberry Pi microfileserver (3TB external drive).

;-)

I agree (a bit). I think MS went the same way as Canonical with Unity in that assuming people wanted something different / unified on a PC desktop when they don't. It says something when the first thing many do with any new OS is try and make it look like the last one.

That said, I've not found anything that W10 can't do that W7 but I don't like the way the direct access to the real Control Panel away as because I'm normally one helping people sort out their issues, I'm using it pretty often.

But there have been so many opportunities for Linux to jump in when people are disgruntled with what MS are doing but so far they have missed it every time. ;-(

Cheers, T i m

[Richard]

Really?