OT DoT Buries Bad News

[robgraham]

I'll admit to be a 'wazock' then for front 'fogs' - but regardless of the law (and I didn't know that front fogs had the same rules as rear ones; thanks for that, though I will ignore it - just as cyclists ignore how bright their lights should be), there are also too many 'wazocks' driving around who fail to realise just how invisible their silver grey cars are under many light conditions - and not only that but how poor front and rear running lights are, such that front fogs are a good and visible alternative.

From the info given here about how far front fogs project, then using them as running lights is far more desirable than any setting of the headlights.

I will have a polite conversation with Mr Plod if he ever does pull me over for illegal use of lights - polite being that I don't intend to change and will regretably waste tax payers' money arguing it in court if needs be. Rob

[bert]

In message , robgraham writes

And I will continue to flash you and your kind with my twin spot lamps and headlamps whenever I meet you. Front fogs are far worse than dipped heads in *Normal* conditions, and if you have levellers you can always turn them down - which is a good bit of exercise for them to check they are still working, ready for your next MOT

As polite as you like and get fined three times as much + costs + victim support fee to cover the tax payers money you have just wasted.

[polygonum]

If you are on a main road/motorway and a headlamp fails (filament dies), is it illegal to switch on foglamps as being better than nothing - both for rendering you visible and even seeing where you are going? There are many circumstances in which you cannot get off the carriageway sensibly to fit a new lamp for some time, even if you are otherwise prepared and able to do so.

[Tim Streater]

Going to Liverpool week before last there were odd weather conditions. Clouds and sunshine, then a white wall in front, then into a blizzard with 50 yds vis, then out again into sunshine after a few mins.

Inside, you needed front and rear fogs. Outside, nothing. Inevitably I forgot to turn them off once, but a bloke in front politely flashed his rear fog at me, so I then remembered to turn them off.

Nice to see that.

[JTM]

. . . or falling snow

[Tim Lamb]

In message , Tim Streater writes

I have yet to drive my wife's car in sufficiently poor conditions to need either. Consequently, I don't actually know how to turn them on/off.

Recent Fiesta, neatly and anonymously hidden behind the steering wheel next to the headlamp level control.

>

[Andy Champ]

IMHO fogs _instead_ of dipped heads works quite well for some cars in some conditions. Properly set the fog beams are flat, and don't shine directly at anyone - but make decent notice lights to make sure that other people have seen you.

They are pretty bad at letting you see where you are going at above about 20MPH though.

Andy

[dennis]

Yes its illegal unless its foggy or falling snow, get the spare bulbs out and fix it.

[dennis]

What's bad about it?

[charles]

not always that easy. To change the near side bulb on my car means removing the battery.

[polygonum]

Quite how do you do that on a motorway without an available hard shoulder?

Don't think I'll take your advice.

[Tim+]

On many modern cars, that's a lot easier said than done. In fact, just not possible at the roadside.

Tim

[John Williamson]

"It's too difficult" is *not* an excuse under the law. Under certain circumstances, a defective headlight could also invalidate your insurance cover.

[RJH]

Well, it's up to you. It's just a waste of petrol/bulbs and you obscure other road users, especially motorbikes.

Rob

[charles]

I ddin't offer it as an excuse - simply a fact. You'd be best advised to call out the AA or whichever breakdown service you use and get a tow to a garage - it's not a roadside job any more.

[Martin Brown]

Although true in theory the number of vehicles I see driving around at night with one headlamp missing suggests to me that your chances of actually being caught doing it are two tenths of bugger all. Traffic police are all clustered around ANPR vans these days making money.

And I would also be prepared to use front fogs if I did lose a headlamp mid journey. It is preferable to stopping on the hard shoulder where there is the risk of being hit by some half asleep or texting halfwit.

I would be off at the next services to change it though. I don't like driving any distance with the assymetric beam pattern that results when a headlamp fails. And on a single carriageway road you have to be particularly careful if the offside headlamp has failed.

[polygonum]

I agree with you about everything. And if a police person did do something, I think a plea approximating to "necessity" should be accepted. (Though we all know how capricious and unjust some motoring law is.) But had hoped someone would have experience/knowledge of the true legal position.

New-fangled LED brows/markers/whatever they are called do seem to help with others seeing you - but we don't all have them.

John - I agree "it's too difficult" is not acceptable; "it would be illegal to stop and safer to use them" might be.

[Tim Watts]

On Monday 25 March 2013 08:32 charles wrote in uk.d-i-y:

Which sounds like a good candidate for our legislate-happy government and likewise the EU.

"All lamps *must* be easy to change, or have an inbuilt backup, or have a mean time between failure of 15 years."

LEDs will probably be the answer, except for the headlamps.

[Tim Watts]

On Monday 25 March 2013 09:03 Martin Brown wrote in uk.d-i-y:

Yep - I do not drive much these days and 1-2 times a week I see someone driving a car with an illegal set of lights. The last one had both the side and headlamp out on one side so was absolutely dangerous (looked like a motorbike in the dark).

Yes. I was going to say: read Inspector Gadget's blog to see why, but he's pulled it[1] because the police are probably embarrassed.

Anyway, one of the recurring points was that "it is all about targets, no policing". Senior police would rather spend time chasing easy targets that add up to a +ve statistic, than do actual preventitive or reassurative policing old style.

[1]

unofficial

So yes, do 35mpg in a 30 on a straight wide stretch and get points. Drive around in a dangerous vehicle and nothing will happen, unless you are sufficiently ill informed to run into a VOSA checkpoint - which around here are about once or twice a year at exactly on point on the A21.

[charles]

headlights should presnt no problem for LESs. There are now theatre spotlights using LEDs, just as good as a 1Kw halogen.