National Double Glazing Companies- Worth using?

I'm planning to have my front door, patio door, and two upstairs windows replaced in UPVC. I'm going to get a quote from two local independent companies and I was thinking of getting a quote from one of the nationals as well. Should I bother? If not why? And if so who should I try, Anglian, Everest, Zenith, Safestyle?

I'm not an expert in this field and when I speak to DIY mates they all said 'you need to get a good profile' but couldn't explain why... So what is it with 'profiles', snake oil or something to research?

Thanks

Reply to
BodgeIt
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at a guess: 'a good profile' means having happy customers.

Reply to
charles

No, this is wrong.

I wouldn't bother with the nationals, they quote high and then offer increasing discounts so you never know where you are. We got quotes from local companies which by and large, having quoted, wait for *you* to call *them*.

The profile is the shape of the window frame. When we discovered 18 months ago that we'd need, basically, to replace all the windows, SWMBO wanted uPVC because you don't need to paint it. I didn't like that at first because most DG that you look at is ugly - it looks like DG.

But we did some research and found something that looks better. Here are some examples. If you look here:

you'll see they show four profiles down the left hand side. We ended up with something like the Rustique. That looks much more like a traditional wooden window. Just ask your quoting company what profiles they can supply. Check into equal sightlines too if looks are important to you.

But it's not all about looks. You should also ask about locking mechanisms (how many locking points), whether they can add security clasps on the hinge side, types of handle, how strong the profile is, where the sealing rubber strips are, whether internally or externally glazed (you want internal).

What rating do you want? Argon-filled? Air-filled? A-rated or not? Type of glass used - reflective coating or not?

Also, DG windows open in an odd way so its easy to clean both sides of the glass from inside the house. But, upstairs they are bound by law to use a different hinging system so the window can open more like a trad window, to give you maximum room to get out in case of an emergency. We had that type fitted downstairs too. Also check they know the regs about toughened glass - where it needs fitting and where it's not needed.

Reply to
Tim Streater

Well I went with Everest in 2006. They were recommended by a friend and I was impressed with the job they had done on her house.

The units that were fitted are good, well made and attractive. However, the quality of ancillaries, such as door handles, leaves a lot to be desired. Yes, I have a lifetime guarantee, but if I have to keep calling them to come fit new handles because the plating keeps pitting, then I am never a happy camper!

Then we have the installation. Absolute crap. I have had them back several times to replace mastic, and they failed to put any foam round the units, so a gale can be felt round them. In the end I am doing this work myself, as I decorate each room.

I am currently in the market for a new conservatory, the Everest salesman thinks he is going to get to quote: think again chum!

You might "fit the best", but the quality is in the fitting. These days almost anyone can make UPVC windows and DG units, but in the end it's not the company that counts, it's the fitter.

R.

Reply to
TheOldFellow

Concur with this. Local companies who do their own fitting need to do a good job to get recommendations and stay in business. National companies who sub-contract out the fitting do not tend to have a motivated and dedicated work force of fitters. Neighbour two doors down went with (I think) Everest and the surveyor was spot on but the fitting was crap. I suspect the original fitting is done on piece work rates and the subsequent making good done by somone else. They have been back several times.

Cheers

Dave R

Reply to
David WE Roberts

Another advantage of a local outfit - they do work like that, word soon gets around. I'd say ours were first rate.

Reply to
Tim Streater

The local small firm will try and do a good job.

Big firms are apt to give fitters too much to do in a day with rushed results. Someone might get a good job done by a national but that is no guide to the team of often self employed fitters the next customer might get.

I used to deal with liability claims from a household name national company and obviously only heard about the ones that went wrong. Some real horror stories. Bays and in one case a roof collapsing. (Surveyor assumed evenly spaced mullions of a long run of floor to ceiling windows would not be load bearing!) I don't think multiple props and a sagging roofline were included in the plans of that architect designed bungalow.

Reply to
Hugh - Was Invisible

Yep, about 60 quid a window (usually to be shared between two!)

tim

Reply to
tim....

Don't use Zenith. The locks and window mechanism were crap and once they have got your address and/or phone you will be constantly bothered by them - even threatening the salesman with violence did not stop them! A chap who was a site labourer got a job with Anglian with no training.

Robbie

Reply to
Roberts

Does anyone still do externally glazed?

I've not looked into it, but I'm pretty sure that the regs only normally required one window to be the "escape" type and the rest could be top-openers if you wanted. That's what we've got, but the previous owners had them put in.

SteveW

Reply to
Steve Walker

My personal experience of Anglian has been summed up by others comments about the nationals. Sub contracted installers, rush the job, don't do it well, make a heck of mess, seperate teams of trouble shooters going around fixing things (wouldn't need that if they did the job properly in the first place), pay over the odds. In the case of Anglian the local office is run as a franchise and head office really do not want to know if you have a problem (which you will) they will only refer you back to the franchise...

"Profile" is the shape of the extrusions that make up the frames. Different ones have different looks.

Reply to
Dave Liquorice

If you have time to spare, enjoy a good example of high pressure selling and don't mind being pestered with phone calls even after you have had the windows fitted by someone else then get one of the national companies to come over.

Get the quotes from the local companies first though so that you have an idea of what it should cost and you will know when the national companies are just discounting artificially high prices.

I've been through this process twice and in my experience, the local guys come out, measure the windows, discuss the various options and give you a quote.

With the national companies a bloke will turn up in a big shiny BMW wearing a shiny suit and bores you to death with marketing material and attempts to baffle you with complex discounts, which all of course expire TODAY, then they move onto complex finance packages with cash back bonuses after a certain number of months and/or interest free periods. Those offers usually expire TODAY as well

With one company the bloke then asks to use the phone to phone the boss (actually the speaking clock) who then has EVEN MORE discounts. Someone told me that they did this and I was really struggling to keep a straight face at this point.

Another trick is the "marketing budget" They offer a big discount if you put a sign outside for a few months.

Even with all the complex discounts the national company were still more than twice the price of the local company.

A few days later the national company phoned me again saying they had some even better deals but that he couldn't give me a price on the phone. I said they could write a letter but apparently the new prices could only be revealed face to face. At this point I told them to go away, which of course they didn't and several months after the local company had installed the windows the national company were still phoning me to inform me of new special offers.

Reply to
Gareth

They also wear white socks with a suit.

Before summoning a national company lay in a supply of fully charged cattle prods and Tasers, CS gas is also useful as nothing else will get them out of the house. To describe them as rabid rats with a bad case of piles is to be rude to rats. Some of them used to sell Saniflows in past lives.

Their "own installers" are local guys who have to bid for 12 months work in advance, lowest bid wins. It isn't a great surprise to find it is only the installers no local company will touch with the proverbial disinfected barge pole who bid for and get the work. The quicker they do the job the more profit they make. Quality is an abstract concept - it may written be on the side of the van but they don't know what it means.

After sales service is in the hands of an old gent called Genghis Khan who has one telephone and lives in a cupboard in south Calcutta. He refers all complaints to his manager, who unfortunately died in

1705, to action.
Reply to
Peter Parry

We had one that was doing externally glazed on a profile that we liked.

What we've got, throughout, are those which hinge at the end of the window rather than in the middle (the latter is what makes it easy to clean both sides). But there is a little catch you press with the escape type and the whole window can then slide along - so you can clean both sides! It all restores itself when you close the window.

Reply to
Tim Streater

Actually, I did find a way of getting rid of them, simply say: "I can't sign today because I only own the lease - I need to get the permission of the freeholder". It was true at the time but I think it's worth remembering for the future - judging from the speed he left you would have thought I had done as you suggested above.

Reply to
Gareth

In article , BodgeIt writes

In addition to all the other replies, I would recommend that if you are getting multiples in that you invite the least favourite first and so on towards the most favoured. Learn from information gleaned from the early quoters so that by the time you are talking to the few that you actually want to do the work that you have all the information to hand, can talk with confidence about the options available and can make an informed choice.

Reply to
fred

There is some sense in that, but you can always get them to come out again, go to their showroom or just phone up to discuss the various options.

Reply to
Gareth

Ask to see a sample window. And examine it thoroughly. The quality of frames, locks and fittings vary a lot.

I fitted my own DG (3 windows to replace old iron single glazed, rest were already ali DG in brown).

The windows I got were from a local firm that normally fitted, but also sold materials only. Not the cheapest, but I was very pleased with how solid the frames were - took quite some drilling, even with a sharp new HSS drill, to make the frame fixing holes. The internal steel reinforcing was fairly substantial.

The locks are positive, the seals are good and being finished in a faux-wood pattern, they actually look pretty decent against the rest of the house.

OTOH I've also seen some real cack...

Reply to
Tim Watts

Recently a yoof knocked on the doorbell, waved an 'ID card' (proves SFA) at me, mentioned a company which I can't recall and, straight out, asked me if I owned the house or was a tenant! He got very upset when I told hom that such information was none of his busines, so I told him to piss off.

Reply to
PeterC

In an increasing number of cases, the correct, if misleading, answer to that question is "Yes".

Reply to
John Williamson

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