Jaguar Land Rover

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Yup. Trumps trade wars has been oh so successful. According to Trump. Only.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Really?

[Dave Plowman (News)]

What an odd if. The biggest customer for JLR products is China. Add that to NA sales makes it about double the sales to the EU.

Just what tariffs NA and China may apply to good from the UK after we leave the EU isn't known. Whereas JLR already know the conditions they export under while the UK is in the EU.

But surely we were told leaving the EU would push up workers wages? By vastly reducing the supply of them? Which is going to increase JLR's costs? Or was that just another empty promise to get the working class to vote Brexit?

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Given the state of our trade balance at the moment, a direct route to bankruptcy. Which it would seem is many Brexiteer's aim.

[tim...]

all I could see was a web site trying to charge me 49 dollars per month

my numbers came from here

the exact numbers were 21.6 and 19.3%

tim

[tim...]

yes

and as the EU does NOT have a trade deal with either of these countries moving to the EU will not change their costs of supply to those countries

yes it is

they will, because they MUST charge the same as they do to the EU.

Have you been asleep when ever WTO rules are discussed?

only at the bottom end.

[RJH]

They're out of date - sales have pretty much doubled since then. But the proportions are not that different today from what I can see.

The thing is: what will happen to the 80% (or so) exported once we're out of the the EU? What will the tariffs be? What will happen to parts logistics? At very best - simply unknown. I can't see how JLR can plan on that basis.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

We don't have a trade deal with them either. However, we do with the EU, and more JLR products are sold there than in the UK - and with far more chance of expanding sales there than in the UK when the poorer countries in the EU get richer. If leaving the EU means more expensive JLR products in the EU, I'd say they would be silly not to move there.

Tell that nice Mr Trump that.

That nice Mr Trump obviously was. As were the Chinese and Canadians and Mexicans etc. Who apply tariffs to what they want on a random basis. As happens in trade wars.

Now we have it. So much for the 'better for all'. Now it would be better only for the very lowest paid. And Rees Mogg, of course.

>

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Quite. It's been said often business doesn't like uncertainty. And rightly so. Now Brexiteers rather obviously like a gamble - but mad to assume everyone does.

[Andy Burns]

Tariffs aren't applied on exports, they're applied (if at all) on imports.

Unfortunately that won't be known until the deal is done (or no deal is done) imported parts from EU to make cars could end up subject to tariffs ... just like imported parts from Japan at present.

[dennis]

They might be exported from Britain, they may just source them from within the EU as they will have less paper work and no tariffs.

This is where the jobs will go.

We do at the moment.

The costs on selling a whole car are somewhat less than lots of components.

Rubbish. It depends on where the bits come from and what costs there are to moving them about. You appear to think it costs the same to move 3000 bits about as it costs to move one. You will discover that its a lot cheaper to move the 3000 parts around if they are all produced in the UK than if some are exported from the UK. You will discover this too late and jobs will go.

[dennis]

The costs are in the components not in exporting a car.

So increasing costs and fuelling wage inflation.

[dennis]

Why would we do one that's worse than being in the EU?

[Chris Bartram]

That exactly. The supply chain alone is incredibly complex. complex enough that often no one person understands the whole thing end to end.

There's so many unknowns that I fail to see how anyone can plan.

I once stripped down a failed heater motor from one of my cars. The whole part was badged Valeo, but a Bosch alternative exists. The Valeo assembly came from somewhere inside the EU, can't recall where, but Valeo Thermal Systems production seems to be in France, according to Google:

The motor inside was a Bosch part, made in Germany. The control unit for climate-equipped cars, part of the assembly, can be Valeo, Bosch, or Denso, and is manufactured in the Far East- or the one I had was.

The car was assembled at Martorell, in Spain, and obviously imported into the UK for sale. Engines are made in Germany or Hungary, the DSG box at Kassel in Germany etc, and of course, these units are assemblies of parts from elsewhere, just like the heater motor is. Car manufacture today depends on parts crossing borders many times, an JIT manufacturing means no one holds huge amounts of stock.

JLR have, of course, just invested in an engine plant not too far from here, north of Wolverhampton. My neighbour works there. He assembles engines- and there's the point: /assembles/. Parts arrive from all over the globe, and get put together. The engines then, for now, take a trip to Castle Bromwich or Solihull to get put in a car, along with truckloads of other bits: Probably some from Valeo, Bosch, or Magnetti Marielli, who are all *global*. The days of Lucas making electrics (badly) in central Birmingham and shipping it to Longbridge to fit to a car that had it's panels pressed one side of Bristol Rd South and came out as a complete car on the other, with an engine built in Cofton Hackett are long gone, back in the rosy haze of 1950s-70s Britain that exists in the minds of Brexit voters.

Another neighbour works at a small engineering firm that supplies tooling for firms that make sub-assemblies for JLR. A UK company. I can't see that continuing when JLR have to shift production because the production lines at Wolverhampton & Castle Bromwich stop because they can't get hold of Bosch injection components from Europe at the right price and in time. Even with all the investment, JLR *will* shift production if they need to.

[Chris Bartram]

Just for example, take this:

If a Mini, built in Oxfordshire, is sold outside the UK, the crankshaft crosses the channel 4 times in total.

[Josh Nack]

Stupid way to do things and explains why Korea leaves you lot for dead.

[RJH]

What I mean is: what tariffs if any will, say, China impose on UK manufactured JLR cars?

The EU is its own enormous trade lobby, and has considerable clout. What's the quid pro quo for China when dealing with the UK? Of course, the UK can hope a free trade deal will arise. What I'm failing to see is why that should happen.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Ah. Ye perennyal crye of ye Stupide Persone.

And yet something like Btrexit is so simple even an idiot can understand EU is best eh?

Chrost on a bike. Of COURSE spmeone understands the whole supply chain. Its someones JOB to understand it.

And unlike the public sector, in car manufacturing if you cant do your job you get fired, not promoted.

[The Natural Philosopher]

And that is why you are a remoaner.

You cant see anything.

[Andy Burns]

What tariffs do they impose today? As have no trade deal with the EU, they can't treat the UK any differently ...