How to prolong the life of your petrol-engined car!

[IMM]

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[IMM]

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[.]

In article , IMM writes

You really are an idiot John, who do you think writes ediverts? magazines and newspapers are where you find them based on information they get from the manufacturers which is why they refer to "some experts" etc. I can see why you are so misguided, you thought they were all independent didn't you? Having had many years of experience of sending articles in to be published in trade magazines I know exactly the sort of stuff that gets published and in publishing they never let the facts get in the way of a good story

[The Natural Philosopher]

Actually, although dIMM doesn't understand what he has read, in this case what he has read is more or less accurate.

Lithium polymer technoloy has the energy and power density that is actually good enough to make a car with a sports car like performance, and sensible range at sensible speeds.

I.e it will go as far and as fast as a petrol car on a single tank, effectively. It just takes at lest an hour, and preferably 'over night' t 'fill the tank';

That means its suitable for the majority of domestic and commuting trips.

What's holding it back is inertia of manufacturers, the cost and lifetime of the batteries, and the safety aspects of the batteries, which are as inflammable as petrol, or worse.

None of these are insoluble, but it will be a few years yet.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Even the unnatural fella is lauding it.

I'm not lauding it.

I am merely saying it is technically possible. And has been done. Albeit in a primitive at huge cost.

[IMM]

It take a year for makers to test the batteries alone, they selct for a vehicle. What is holding up Hybrid production is the 3rd party battery production.

A Japanese inventor claim his electric motor uses 10% of the energy of other motors and has sold 40,000 of them for air fans. If this is the case, then developing a motor for auto use with Lithium polymer batteries will give

1,000 miles range.

See for motor. Large companies are very interested: Liceses etc, may make them shy. Could be a scam or maybe somthing in it:

"According to Automotive Technology Research or ATR co-founder and former J.D. Powers & Associates lead analyst, Thad Malesh, this is only the beginning. His firm is predicting -- conservatively, I might add -- that there will be at least 50 hybrid-electric vehicle models on the market by the end of this decade."

If these advances in elecric batteries and motors is realised, hybrids and fuel cells will be leapflogged.

When production is en-mass and prices drop like a stone for Lithium Polymer batteries, these will power a car for 250-300 miles, with excellent performance, on an overnight grid charge. An electric car run on Lith Polymers with have, say a very small hermetically sealed Stirling engine, that looks like a fridge compressor, used only for charging and maybe heating the car from its surplus heat. The free wheeling piston Stirling unit, used by MicroGen could be used. This would complete the package.

The Stirling could run overnight (very smooth and silent in operation using a fee moving piston with no crank or swash plate), to re-charge batteries if not plugged in while the car is parked. So no need to rely on a power point for energy. Of course the Stirling could run and recharge at any time the management system dictates. When driving down the road it could be re-charging.

Lith Polymer batteries "appear" to be the breakthrough that has been promised for 15 years; well one decent milestone anyway. And things can only get better in battery technology.

The solution appears to be under our noses, with available technology, yet the big auto giants don't appear to want to know. How suprising ;)

This also has knock on effects for off-the-grid homes. And if this Japanese motor is real, then we will all be using heat pumps to heat our homes.

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[IMM]

The first of anything that is cutting edge technology usually costs an arm and leg. Look at early computers.

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[IMM]

If you wanmt to know what is happening in battery technology then find out. Then come back and say IIMM you were right. Stop babbling tripe.

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[Dave Plowman (News)]

You might ponder why every car maker in the world sticks to lead acid if these wonderful new battery technologies were the answer you seem to think they are to everything. After all, the cost can't be a factor, and size and weight are always a consideration on any modern car.

Unfortunately, it's your child like acceptance of adverts or maker's claims without any attempt to verify them that makes you the laughing stock of this newsgroup.

BTW, did the penis enlargement pills work for you?

[:::Jerry::::]

Well Mr IMM, if you knew anything about magazine publication....

[The Natural Philosopher]

Dimm wit. You are in this case, partially right, but that still doesn't make you any less an idiot.

Even a parrot can be taught to say 'LIthium Batteries Good. Petrol Bad, Peterol Bad Petrol bad...

[Dave Plowman (News)]

The theory, yes. But as usual he thinks it is a fact. And can be bought off the shelf.

Yup.

Which will be a considerable down side for most in this 'instant' society.

And in the meantime, advancements in the good ol' IC engine will continue to improve its efficiency. And there's plenty of room for that.

[IMM]

Oh my God, some people are some mentally incapable. They are NEW and are still under development/testing which has already been mentioned. And he wonders why they are not here already. My God!

Do I really have to spell it out for you like you are a child, are totally incapable of reading simple English or reading an overview technical article.

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[Dave Plowman (News)]

Please find out the efficiency of various types of electric motors before posting such s**te.

Not, of course, that you understand what efficiency means...

[The Natural Philosopher]

Cost reliability and safety Dave.

I can do you a 75 Ah 12.4 volt pack for....$5,000..that will fit your car and weigh...about 10lb. Are you happy to pay $5000 for a battery that will only last the same time as a normal one, and although it weighs maybe 1/4, is not significant in the overall weight reduction, will need an adapted alternator, and, if shorted, is capable of exploding with considerable force and very high temperatures?

you can pop into halfords and get a lead acd for about $100?

Indeed, but don't let IMM's idiocy blind you to the fact that occasionally wquite at random he does read something that is in fact more or less correct.

I reckon a 10 hour 13A 230v charge will put 30Kw/h into a pack.

If the average small car needs an average of - say - 10bhp - or 7.5KW to tootle along at 60mph, that nets you about 240 miles range. More with regenerative braking, extra light weight and reduced performance etc.

The batteries themselves are capable of fully discharging in 20 minutes or indeed far less - giving you a peak power of at least 90kW, or

120bhp. In our model aircraft use, currents of up to 20 times the capacity rating have ben drawn, giving peak power of such a pack of 600KW - 800bhp!!!

Scaling up the weights from a a typical small cell delivering about 56 watt hours per lb, we get 30kwh weighing in at about 540lb in weight. Or about 1/4 ton. Or about three average adult passengers. In again our moel plane usage, teh battery represnets 75% or more of the total powertrain weight - motor, gearbox and controller. So 750lb for such a power train seems not unresanable.

The average engine, gearbox fuel and tank, and tranmission on a small car weighs in at a similar figure.

Sadly however, the current price of about $2.5 per watt hour, makes this pack an astonishing $75,000 to buy at current 'hobby' prices.

Thse who are interested I refer to

who make the cells who sell them in small quantites for toy plane usage.

The road going porsche beater sports car that averaged 60mph for 300 mile on a charge used a while pack of such cells. It proved a point. It was not commercially viable.

However there seems no intrinsic reason why the cells could not be produced in enormous volume, and suitable electronics rwapped around them to prevent poblesm with over charging.discharging, and an electric car prouced ultimately at comarable cost to a petrol oe. Albeit that the running costs would be largely battery replacement costs, rather than fuel. 300 cycles/3 years (a range of maybe 100,000 miles or 3 years or so between battery replacement) being the best we could hope to see.

I would say development wold take around ten years to be truly commercially viable though.

As far as elecrical costs go, 30KWh even at peak rates of about 7p per unit is a mere £2.10 to fill up your tank ....

Asfar as distribution infrastructure goes, I am sure tha a single 3Kw overnight load on every household is within current (sic!) capabilites..

[IMM]

And they can't even do what a parrot does.

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[IMM]

It is clear you haven't much of a clue. Sad but true.

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[Dave Plowman (News)]

So it's the first new type of rechargeable battery since the invention of lead acid? Ever thought why Ni-Cads weren't used for cars given their obvious advantages in IMM speak? Or any of the later replacements?

You need to think. Fat chance. You just believe every advert you read, without questioning it, let alone understanding the implications.

[IMM]

Ever occurred to you that Lith Poly is not yet on the market? So, the makers have no option but to use what is available? Where do they come from?? No common sense whatsoever!

Now the following is a bit better.

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[IMM]

Not worth reading.

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