Can corporations read your email with the corporate domain? Was: Who can read your email?

[micky]

alt.home.repair added, because they have opinions about everything!

About email in general, not Eudora.

When you write to someone at his personal email address but one that ends in a corporate domain, in this case two medical practices with 75 and more than 150 doctors respectively, what are the odds that email to hir will a) be read as a matter of course by the network administrator or worse yet, his medical supervisor, b) be scanned by software looking for key words the management would wants to pursue (by reading more emails, reviewing it with the doctor, asking why he's getting a complaint, etc.) words like you SOB, screwed up, failed, unnecessary, mistake, error, malpractice, and 200 others, c) be read by someone in management whenever he had a notion to do so (like maybe someone else had complained about the doctor and they want to see how many people have grievances they haven't told the "management" about, or maybe someone has a beef with one of the doctors and is looking for an excuse to hurt him, d) any other level of company scrutiny, or e) are such emails sometimes, usually, always actually private, between patient and doctor.

Background: The first doctor fresh out of residency didn't ask me enough questions and inconvenienced me, worried me, and took 10 or 20 hours of my time doing more research for 2 years, when if she'd only asked one more question or told me one big side effect of the drug she prescribed, I would have done things in a different order and saved all that trouble. I read serious articles on the web about the drug before starting to take it, but the fact that this side effect is thought to never go away, even after you stop taking the drug, was not mentioned in the articles. When I asked her a year later, she knew about that though, but she tried to palm the question off on the dentist.

I'm annoyed and I want to tell her so she doesn't make the same mistake again (though I suspect my GP who's in the same practice already told her) but once warned, I doubt she'll ever do it again and I don't want to get her in trouble with her practice. So I want her to be the only one to read the email. I had planned to call her office and try to get a truly private email, until I realized there were two such situations, maybe 3, and I can also imagine reluctance from a secretary or even the doctor to give out a personal email so i wanted some guide as to how hard to push for one, or if it's not needed at all. I've considered writing a real letter, you know, USPS, but that's a recipe for never getting it done. It takes me quite a bit of time to write the email correctly.

I have no complaint about the second one, but his practice has caused me grief on 3 other occasions and on a continuing basis every time I need any anesthesia for a procedure -- they insist someone bring me, stay there the whole time, and take me home, about 5 hours. They won't let the person leave and come back and won't let a taxi take me home. I've considered having a taxi-driver pose as my friend, but then it's about $180 iirc. I've found another very reputable practice that also won't permit a taxi but just calls my ride when they're done and has him come get me. 1 hour on his part, not 5. (30 minutes to get me, 30 minutes to take me home) I fully intend to explain to the doctor while I'm likely changing doctors, but I'm not ready to tell the practice yet. He can tell them if he wants.

There's a 3rd, come to think of it. Because of continued back pain, I went to an orthopedist and it wasn't until after an MRI and at the end of the second appointment before he said how much my being fat causes this problem, and that was only after I brought it up. I knew weight mattered but I didn't realize how much. (and after that I lost 20 pounds and half the pain went away and the half left isn't of the same nature. It's not as bad.) I guess he didn't want to offend me, but I know I'm fat and I know it's no secret to anyone who can see me. But again, I don't want the practice to read my complaint.

(As to details for the first two cases, they're not a secret but I'm trying to be brief.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Where I worked was smaller than what you describe. i was the general manger and I set up the email system so yes, I can read every incoming email if I wanted to. I never really cared or bothered but it can be done. Corporate email is never private.

Either tell her face to face or send her a snail mail letter and park the envelope "Personal" or "Private" or "Confidential" and under HIPPA rules they should respect your privacy.

This is common practice for good reason. Have you no friends? Pay a teenager to go with you? One time I had my grandson go with me. The other time my wife drove around the corner and I drove home from there. In my case, they would call your ride when you were ready. Next week I'll take my wife for a colonoscopy and I'll hang out and read a book. She did the same for me but I drove home. Five hours is a long time to wait for a routine procedure. Even when my wife had major surgery they did not say I had to wait, though I did. She was not going home though.

I lost 15 pounds and it made a huge difference for my knees. Doc wants me to lose another 15 but it is not easy to do.

[trader_4]

+1

It's not the practice at most corps to read employees email, but they have the right to, if they want to.

.

[gfretwell]

"Read their Email" is archaic as saying "wire tap". I would expect any big company with a legal department might be scanning Email looking for key words and phrases tho. This is just software. I also bet every byte of communication on the corporate network is spinning on a disk drive somewhere. I think the same thing about my AOL email. (or Gmail. Yahoo or whatever) That was what got Hillary in trouble. She was the only one with copies of her Email (except possibly the person on the other end). After Linda Tripp, I bet the Clintons have a non disclosure agreement with their people that includes a virtual if not literal death penalty. Smack a few disk drives with a hammer and "there is no evidence to support that allegation". ;-)

[rbowman]

Toward the end of his life George McGovern spent his summers down the Bitterroot where he had a small bookstore. When I went in for an operation that required someone to drive me home I took a cab. The driver was familiar with the hospital gambit and remarked that his most unnerving experience was picking up McGovern at the hospital. Not only did McGovern bitch about the stupidity of the hospital regulations through the entire trip but the driver could see the headlines if he got into a fender bender with McGovern aboard.

I wasn't sure about the after effects of the anesthetic so I played along. I did have to play twenty questions about who was going to stay with me after the operation. I lied.

In another case a friend from work sprung me after an eye operation, drove me back to my car and I took it from there. That was more awkward since I was supposed to maintain a face down posture for three days.

I did the colonoscopy bit without the joy juice. I rather enjoyed the video tour of my guts. The doctor was ex-military so while the request to forgo anesthesia was unusual he was agreeable.

[Doug Miller]

Ed Pawlowski wrote in news:KWeAB.227588$ [e-mail]:

Stop right there, micky.

If it ends in a corporate domain, it's NOT his "personal email address", it's his *work* email address.

And there is NO expectation of privacy there.

[micky]

I knew I heard that somewhere!

Too much trouble for both her and me. I'd have to go there and she'd have to take time, and at the same time. Plus there are 3 of them.

I'll try calling this week for private email addresses. I'll try to say later if I could get them. For some reason I find writing letters to be a lot of work, and each of the doctors has more to gain from this than I do.

The other 3 occasions were like this. 1) One time I was left in pain from an earlier procedure (busting up a bladder stone or something related) and it took them about a week to find an operating room or whatever you call it to fix whatever went wrong the first time. That's bad enough but when I was in the most pain, I called the office and the secretary refused to take a message because of HIPPA. I dont' believe that is the law. Rather I think their lawyers are being extra careful, and they won't pay the extra premium for more insurance so their lawyers could be more lenient.

I ended up faxing the office with the first line in caps "I WAIVE ALL MY HIPPA RIGHTS." so they would have no excuse not to carry the piece of paper to his office (for fear they might accidentally read it),

2) Another time I was in moderate pain but it was getting worse and I didnt' want it to go higher over the weekend. I called, said I was in pain, and they said my doctor wasn't in that day. What, I'm in love with him? Why can't I see another doctor. (they have 75, all urologists.) Okay, they agree to that, and when I come in some nurse-type takes me to an examining room and asks questions. How much does it hurt? A 5 out of ten. "That's not what you said when you called this morning." Well they didnt' ask and I didn't say anything about how much it hurt and it's been 2 hours and it might have changed and who cares what I said. I have to prove to them I'm in pain?

And what did she do, She gave me a small bottle of Uribel pills, which a) she said don't require a doctor, and b) they solved the problem. So why did they grill me on the phone and in person.

3) Another time, my ride had been in an accident and was now scheduled for physical therapy during my procedure. She called me in the afternoon,and I called the office to explain about 3:58PM. The woman who answered the phone had to check with someone, who seemed to be in the same room, and the answer was she could drop me off and pick me up later. But when we got there early Monday, that wasn't good enough. It may be that the office closed while the phone was ringing and the answering service picked up, and what they say doesn't count for anything, but they didn't tell me they were the service.

So now I'm there and I know both the doctor and I don't want me to leave without doing it -- he won't get paid -- and I make him come out to the waiting room, and he says they have to have the ride waiting because sometimes husbands or wives don't show up on time and they have no one who is able to watch the patient after the procedure. I say, Why can't I sit in the waiting room and if I fall out of the chair the receptionist will see it (and the way the room was, she would). I point out that my ride is no more medically skilled than the receptionist, so if I'm able to sit in the car with my ride, why can't I sit in the waiting room. I don't point out that 30 minutes after the ride and I leave, he's going to leave me alone at my house because they'd have a fit about that, but they never ask where I'm going, and they know I live alone. Like many people. So it's not my safety but their liability.

And again it's the lawyers.

(This last one, she was just going to drop me off but for some reason she parked and came up to the office maybe 15 minutes later, and I didn't really want her to but she offered to skip her physical therapy. So that ended the fight without resolving it.)

Federal law for decades has said that they can't discharge someone who isnt' alert, I think it is, unless there is a competent adult there to be with him. But all over the country, lawyers have decided to play it safe, and expanded on the meaning of alert, so that they decide in advance that no one meets that standard. And I've always been fully alert, these 4 times and a colonoscopy (which didn't require anyone to wait, but it was a couple years earlier.) . I could pass any test they gave me but they've made up their mind that no one is alert enough. The advantage of the anesthesia they use is that for most people including me when they wake up they're wide awak. One time, when a young friend waited for me, I had him drive me 5 blocks to a main street wwhere I got a cab downtown because I wanted to watch a court trial (which was postponed) and I ran around downtown for an hour, then took the subway back home. .

Now I'm so angry again and the letter wrote itself, but I can't send it to the management until I've found another doctor. Which should only take an hour.

Yes, but I've gotten each of them to do this once already, plus a couple other times where all they had to do was pick me up. I think the fifth time is coming up.

Don't know any teenagers. In the 20 or so houses around here where I know the people, there are no teenagers, and none among my friends. Too old I guess and either no kids or no grandchildren.

That would be fine. I'd have no trouble asking the same people if it was like that.

It's 20 minutes to come get me, 30 minutes to get there, and 10 minutes say to park and go upstairs to make an even hour. IIRC they want me there an hour in advance, before they actually start, and it takes 60 minutes and another 30 or 40 before I wake up. As is typical, once I wake up I'm wide awake then. , Then an hour to take me home and go back to wherever they want to be. So that's 4:40

Good for you. I'm sure she appreciated it. And the place that does it your way is a famous hospital here. However the practice with this policy controls at at least one other respected hospital, where I had one procedure, and afaik several other hospitals. But except for that one time, I think it's been done at a non-hospital surgical place, sort of like where Joan Rivers died.

Recovery time. I hope she's fine now.

There was an NPR segment about how doctors are reluctant to discuss weight with patients, even if the patients bring it up, and they fear if they do, the patients won't come back. A lot of hits on the topic:

When I heard about this, my attitude to the doctor above softened, but for his good and possibly for future patients, I still think I should tell him.

But I don't want his manager to know. My mother had the same attitude. That's probably where I got it.

It sure isn't. My friend can't make up her mind, but I might be going on a trip for 2 or 3 weeks with a woman 15 years younger than I, but more importantly, she walks 90 minutes 4 or 5 times a week. I'll never be able to keep up with her at her max but I don't want to be so slow I drive her crazy. (I'm going on the trip regardless of whether she comes. )

[micky]

I'm going to assume the worst. Better safe than sorry. Of course that is just what drives their policy that I object to.

I'm sure they have a legal department. It's the lawyers who have made the rules causing the problem. I'm not generally against lawyers**, but this is inconveniencing ME.

**And one of the two things I learned in my attempt at law school was that were it not for the threat of a lawsuit, people would be much more negligent than they are now, which is bad enough. It's insurance companies that inspect workplaces and insist they are rather safe.

Not only that. They don't even want me emailing the doctor. Instead they have a "portal", a web page where I can write messages, but when I email, I have a copy and they have a copy. With the webpage, they store my email and their answers where I can see it, but only as long as they want to. If trouble is brewing, and a lawsuit, they can delete them and it will take a subpoena to get a copy from the archives. So I keep my own copy of everything I post there. A couple of the doctors, in different practices, have given me their direct email, my gp and the urologist (who said it was against the rules).

[micky]

Okay, I get your point. Thanks.

But just to affirm my ability to use Engish, it's personal in that it's assigned to him, the person, Dr. Joe Shmoe, and not the Urology Dept. or the Calvert St. Office, or Chairman of the Urology Dept, or webmaster or editor.

[duh]

It's not the lawyers, it's the insurance fraudsters and the jurors.

The jurors are the ones that award the outrageously high settlements...and then those same stupid jurors wonder why the cost of insurance is so high.

[Arthur Conan Doyle]

The word you are looking for is individual, not personal.

[trader_4]

You sure can turn a simple thing into a big deal. You have a suggestion for improvement. It's work related. Just send it to her email at work. The chances that the employer is sitting there reading individual emails is small. And it's work related, you claim she made a mistake that you want to prevent happening again in the future. Most people would probably send that to the employer to begin with, especially if it's a medical related thing.

[Tekkie®]

micky posted for all of us...

Micky you sure live a complicated life! You go to these croakers why? You want an email; you ain't going to get it. You should have sent yourself a copy. I think you need a lawsuit but you don't want to offend the dokter?

No corporate email is secure, after all it's their machines. GFretwell sums it up.

[micky]

The jurors find for the plaintiff, but then it's the lawyers who advise medical practices in the future who say, Go beyond what the last verdict required. Better safe than sorry. Don't let him leave no matter how he feels.

[micky]

I don't think they will tell me.

That reminds me of the saying, If you forgot it it can't be important. I think they are both baloney.

If email didn't exist, I might well write letters, but it's easier to make a phone call to a secretary and write an email than to write one postal letter.

And I'm not obsessing. I wrote one short email and one long one. Composing the long one caused me to writes the letter I will send to the

2nd doctor. I'm glad it's written now.

Actually I think I'm only obese.

When I wake up, I'm wide awake within 2 minutes. And they have the same rule for everyone, fat or not.

That probably is a good part of the reason they want the ride there the whole time, but like I say, a major hospital in town doesn't have that rule, so the rule must not be thought essential by all lawyers, and i'm going where the rule suits me. Plus they've annoyed me for the other three reasons too. Usually it's three strikes and you're out but I've given them four.

He woudn't have said it at all if I hadn't brought it up. If he'd said it at the first appt. I might have avoided the MRI, which Medicare and the supplemental paid for, raising the insurance costs for all of you.

Look at the link in the previous post.

True. I wrote that line earlier.

Screw you.

So how come my post bothered you so much you had to write a details reply. Learn to ignore stuff like this.

[micky]

You're right. That's better.

BTw, I love your books. What is Basil Rathbone really like?

[Wally]

-

It's a chain reaction started by a large jury award. Corporations are just reacting by putting procedures in place so it (hopefully) doesn't happen again.  The taxpayers pay the price.