Grenfell Tower - Celotex



You've not heard the news? Named as being Hotpoint, and as never had a safety re-call, and the government wanting it investigated. Lots of arse covering going on.

Shouldn't there be clear and unambiguous regulations about what sort of cladding (fire resistant wise) that is allowed on a building like this?
Not left to 'someone' to decide?
--
*We are born naked, wet, and hungry. Then things get worse.

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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On 23/06/2017 14:57, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Which someone decides on the regulations?
AIUI the building regs do actually say combustible cladding should not be used on high rise buildings.
I don't think there is any doubt that it was combustible or that it was high rise.
As the UK government appears to be unable to make a regulation to stop this happening maybe the EU can? While they are at it fire retardant is not adequate and it should be non-combustible.
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On Tuesday, 20 June 2017 14:54:50 UTC+1, charles wrote:

So do we stay in for the next one or pop out for some popcorn?
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wrote:

Ronan Point happened because there was no redundancy in the structure, remove one element such as a wall of an individual flat and everything else in the vicinity is incapable of carrying the loads it now has to carry.
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On 22/06/2017 21:04, The Other Mike wrote:

ITYM there is nothing there to carry the loads.
There are still blocks out there built in that manner AFAIK.
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I think they were all modified ......
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On 22/06/2017 21:26, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:

But will a few pins and stuff like that stand up to an explosion with 50 - 150 g of butane?
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nothing is foolproof ...
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[snip]

ISTR that there was also the problem that the pre-fabricated panels did not fit together properly, and were bodged/adjusted on site, which compromised the structural integrity of the structure. Properly assembled, the explosion /should/ have not caused the panels to blow out and cause the progressive collapse of the corner concerned.
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Jim White
Wimbledon London England
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On 18/06/2017 13:54, Tim Streater wrote:

Lots of space round the building, so build another tower block about 20 feet away and join them every 5 floors with fire-resistant walkways, losing one flat in every 5 floors from the original.
That way any front door security system will keep out the unwanted.
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On 18/06/2017 12:20, Adrian Caspersz wrote:

External stairwells, which some tower blocks have, only need to be made of fire-resistant material like reinforced concrete. If the main fire is in the building then the external stairwell is unaffected.
But this is social housing, where people think nothing of dumping old mattresses and other junk at the bottom. Plus the problem with vandals, druggies leaving needles etc etc.
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Where would you put an external stairwell? How would anyone access it - there'd have to be access on each floor, and apart I presume from the ground floor where the front doors are, every point on the outside of the building is the outside of someone's flat. You'd have to sacrifice accommodation.
--
"It is hard to imagine a more stupid decision or more dangerous way of
making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people
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Quite a few tower blocks where the stairs are more like a separate building. Access to that need be no more wasteful of space than to an internal one.
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*I just got lost in thought. It was unfamiliar territory*

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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On 19/06/2017 21:43, Tim Streater wrote:

Make one or two of the two bed flats into a one bed flats, according to some there is a real shortage of one bed flats to avoid the bedroom tax.
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Brilliant thinking. The purpose of the bedroom tax was to get people out of accommodation larger than they need to release it for those more deserving. Allegedly. Rather than just to tax the poor more.
--
*When the chips are down, the buffalo is empty*

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message wrote:

Brilliant thinking. The purpose of the bedroom tax was to get people out of accommodation larger than they need to release it for those more deserving. Allegedly. Rather than just to tax the poor more.
--
*When the chips are down, the buffalo is empty*

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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It's not of course a "tax" at all, but a cap on the amount of housing benefit that's paid, having looked at your needs and the accommodation in question[1].
Converging with a question asked in another(?) thread earlier, they also cap the benefit to the rental of an average(?) property of the size that it's determined you qualify for.
If you are in rented accommodation (private or council) then it will tend to encourage people to downsize, leaving the larger properties available for larger households. Assuming you can even still get housing benefit as an owner-occupier, they are the ones most likely to be under-funded.
[1] For example, a family of parents and two children won't qualify for more than a three-bedroom house. So if you happen to be living in a five bedroom house, that two "extraneous" rooms.
--
Roland Perry

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Perhaps Dave could explain in what way it's a tax. HMRC collects it, do they?
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Branding something a "tax" is just a popularist nickname. Just like *raising* the social care means test threshold from ?23k to ?100k is called a "dementure tax".
(And dementure isn't the sole reason why people need social care, either).
--
Roland Perry

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On 20/06/17 11:45, Roland Perry wrote:

ITYM 'debenture'
Shirley?
And there was me thinking you axshlly had had a university eddykayshun
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the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
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