Maybe not as many but many places are earning money from allowing people to shoot animals with cameras rather than guns and charging for that 'get close to the animals' experience. Walking with Llamas and the like.
On one of our motorcycle camping trips around the UK we were due to stay at a campsite that was next to a Reindeer Farm on what was billed as 'BBQ night'. It took daughter a second for the penny to drop so we had to camp elsewhere. ;-(
Cheers, T i m
Ok. I'm dreading the day when I might be forced to do that (injured animal at the side of the road).
Did we create them then?
I think you will find they are very different from veg, but I agree re the (potentially bad) idea of animating / anthropomorphising anything that you want to get people (kids especially) to eat.
Remember the negative feedback / impact when one of the fast food Co's showed live chickens (or some such) in their ads?
People generally don't like to be reminded what it was when they tuck into their meat (suggesting there is an element of denial there).
'I know buying a stolen car radio is wrong but if I don't buy it ... and it may not be lost not stolen ... '?
Cheers, T i m
Yes.
I sometimes see them on the road in front of my house. (And yes, they are very tasty.)
Just think, all those plants you KILL TO eat convert CO2 to O2.
You are one of the Greta Mob, aren?t you?
So why are you trying to kill everyone by killing plants?
Not to mention that old, polluting, kit car. How old is that? I bet it?s emissions are far worse than a nice big, modern, 4x4.
In message snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com, T i m snipped-for-privacy@spaced.me.uk> writes
You were doing so well!
24 hours for your average dairy cow and the calf apparently doesn't care at all. The calf needs the colostrum from the first few days milk (which shouldn't be sold anyway) but after a bit of education that milk in a bucket is down not up and given a pair of human fingers to practice....
It's when they're still squealing and wriggling about ...
Owain
Quite. The thing is, they don't also bleed and suffer.
And you are part of the anti-Greta-mob? You want *more* pollution in the world?
Because doing that creates less impact than allowing animals to eat plants and then eating them. No animals, more plants for us or fewer plants get eaten!
You have said you like eating meat and drinking milk and obviously don't actually DGAF what pain and suffering the animals (you eat the meat of and drink the milk from) suffer. The 'experts' have said it's ok so that's good enough for you. That's fine, just be a man and stand up and admit it (you will look even more ridiculous if you try and deny / justify it).
<snip>You *really*don't want to start on the car thing ... you seem to be having a bad enough time of it as it is. ;-(
Cheers, T i m
Don't.
Daughter and b/f were driving though Scotland when a deer ran out in front of them. They hit it pretty hard, he stopped and went back to check (she couldn't at the time, probably would now, especially if on her own).
When he returned she asked if he was sure it was dead and he confirmed it was, but wouldn't be pressed how he could be so sure.
She was satisfied because he was trained to cull deer and prep them to eat so was fairly familiar with their insides in any case. ;-(
Cheers, T i m
Ah, but I'd expect you had, you are a farmer! ;-)
Cheers, T i m
Thanks. This is all pretty new to me so learning all the time.
By 'apparently' you are suggesting that 'after 24 hours' the calf will typically walk away from it's mother and not go back ... ?
Yeabut that doesn't explain, other than because we want to take the milk that should be there feeding a calf and drink it ourselves?
There is some interesting stuff here (just a random Google).
Seems like I'm not the only one then ... ;-)
Cheers, T i m
AIUI calves will continue to suckle for months, given the opportunity, well beyond the time when they can happily eat and digest grass. To discourage them, a farmer may clip a spiked ring to the calf's nose, which digs in to the mother's udder as the calf tries to suckle, causing the mother to move away or even kick out at the calf. This eventually persuades the calf to give up suckling. Although they look like something from a medieval torture chamber, I doubt they cause either cow or calf any real discomfort, although the spikeless nose flap might seem more humane.
It may not be on the same level, but tests have shown that plants do "scream" (electronic sensors on the leaves) and release pheremones that cause similar plants around to go into panic mode, secreting defensive toxins.
SteveW
Whatever the time, isn't that the natural way?
So I'm guessing this would be for our benefit? eg, If this were wild cattle somewhere ...
I guess the question would be, have they evolved them in nature. ;-)
Yes, I've read of those and farmers suggesting they often fall off.
All I'm trying to say, is that whilst we here in the UK are probably way ahead in some of this, it's still 'an industry' and in many places it's really still just 'live' 'stock', like any other form of 'industrial stock'.
Except, the problem is the 'live' bit and how much emphasis / consideration we do (or don't) put on that.
That could (and in my opinion, will) extend to not doing it at all (breeding live stock), especially if they come up with a synthetic replacement, as more vegan / vegi alternatives become available, as people learn more about what's going on (and I think many of the younger folk are already) or as we run out of resources (space / water) to feed everyone on meat / milk / eggs.
Cheers, T i m
Yes, as it happens; not that that is a justification for eating them.
How do you know? There has been suggestions plants can sense damage. Certainly they leak fluids if damaged.
Eating apples, berries etc stops the plant breeding.
Stop changing the subject.
Besides, this isn?t about pollution. This is about your hypocrisy.
So you only kill a few so it is ok.
I don?t eat that much meat, so not many cows die to supply it.
You mean you haven?t got an answer to explain why you drive a polluting old wreck. You could cycle, walk every where or get a modern, less polluting car.
Strange, you?ve ALWAYS got a story.
You and your daughter certainly get around.
A cow will continue to produce milk long after calf has been removed. Once the process is triggered, provided the udder is emptied, the the lactation process will continue for about 6 mths. The cow is then rested after a drying off period, before being mated (probably artificially) again. If I remember the details from the short course I attended, the stimulation of the nipples which empties the udder triggers the milk production cycle to continue during the 6 months. ( We were once considering buying enough land to have some animals, nothing huge. I attended several courses on keeping animals etc. I didn?t expect to have cows but goats and Dexter cows were both discussed together. Dexters are popular with those having just one or two cows to supply milk. )
In message snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com, T i m snipped-for-privacy@spaced.me.uk> writes
Not visibly distressed. Dairy cows are a long way from their wild origins but I would expect an outdoor calving to be away from the herd and possibly hidden. The day old calf normally waits for mum to return. With twice a day milking, the dairyman would spot signs of imminent calving and house the cow separate from the herd so an unsupervised calving likely to be rare. Suckler herds rather different but their milk is not sold and the calves may remain with mum for some months.
A dairy cow produces enough milk for about 3 day old calves!
There is no profit benefit in mistreating farm animals.
Or more that a change in electrical characteristics can be measured and that artificially translated into a noise? ;-)
Indeed, same with trees, all intercommunicating via their roots etc.
However, whilst it's still sad that we have to interfere with any level of nature, I don't believe it's the same issue as with how we
*also* keep animals before we finally slaughter them, along with how we do that.An apple for example lives a pretty normal / natural life before if falls off and would normally just rot away. If we happen to pick it up and eat it then I'm not sure what difference that makes, just as it would be if an animal died of natural causes and we ate that.
Cheers, T i m
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