EVs causing potholes ?

[Jethro_uk]

I recently read a suggestion that some potholes in the UK may be due to the action of EV acceleration.

If true it's a good reason to tax them more.

[GB]

How many potholes? Unless you can put figures on the cost of repair, you have no idea how much extra to tax them. It could just be a fraction of a penny.

[maus]

We do not even know what causes potholes. Problems with the subtarmac surface?.

[The Natural Philosopher]

You may not. Some of us do.

[alan_m]

It's just a matter of time until EVs will be taxed to make up for the loss of fuel duty.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Big dilemma. The gummint has been bribed to make them mandaTory, but people can in general Do Simple Sums..

..and EV's just don't add up, and the political cost of enforcing them (like renewable energy) is a further drop in living standards.

[Andy Burns]

They start paying next year, I think?

[Clive Page]

It seems to be well established that damage to roads is roughly proportional to the fourth power of the weight of the vehicle. I can't find a good estimate of the average weight of an electric vehicle compared to one with a petrol/diesel engine, but I have seen figures that they are around 30% heavier because of the battery. This would make the road damage 2.8 times higher.

Of course governments everywhere have chosen to ignore this when taxing 40 ton trucks, otherwise they would pay about 2.5 million times as much as a one-ton car for the road damage element of their tax.

[Spike]

Let look at a few real world numbers.

The bicycle and rider:

Weight…100kg

Number of axles…2

Size of contact one patch…2800 mm^2

Load exerted on the road surface by one wheel =

(100/2)/(2800x(10^-6) kg/sq.m

= 1.8x(10^4) kg/sq.m

The car:

Weight…2000kg

Number of axles….4

Size of one contact patch…20500mm^2

Load exerted on the road surface by one wheel =

(2000/4)/(20500x(10^-6) =

= 2.4x(10^4) kg/sq.m

So from this analysis it can be seen that actual loads exerted on the road surface through the combination of the contact patch of the tyre and the loads acting through it are very similar for the case of the bicycle and the larger modern car.

Nowhere in these calculations was it necessary to invoke some ‘fourth power’ ‘rule’. Contact patch sizes were obtained from cycling and motoring web sites.

I suspect that the EV/pothole issue stems from the EV being able to exert more torque at the road wheels at zero speed, than an ICE vehicle.

[Chris Hogg]

As a side issue but still on the topic of EV's, how do the batteries survive being immersed in flood water for a couple of days?

[Bob Eager]

I drive a full hybrid, identical to my previous car except for that being diesel. It is 2% heavier.

[Fredxx]

It's personal choice. I am not currently forced to run an EV. Not sure why you should think you are?

New cars don't add up. EVs will come down in price, depending on the tax structure surrounding them. The more tax, the lower the resale price.

[Fredxx]

To be fair hybrids only have a battery range of 10 or so miles and therefore don't have the weight.

I've always liked the plug-in hybrid. The average journey is only a few miles so hybrids should run on their batteries for much of the time.

[Joe]

No. *Everybody* will be taxed by GPS tracking, and there will *still* be fuel duty.

[Jethro_uk]

That's one factor. The force of acceleration is another. It creates a shear force surely ?

[Jethro_uk]

I thought generally a submerged car is a write off. You will never get the smell out. Certainly that was the story I was told when a customers car got submerged when they parked too close to a tidal part of the Thames (can't remember where now).

[GB]

That's what Jethro suggested in the OP, too.

[Max Demian]

They'll introduce road pricing so the gummint will know exactly where we go all the time. The "Tony Blair Institute" wants this (well, not the second part, but that's a given).

[Bob Eager]

True, but it has a socking great 2.5 litre engine.

[Theo]

Are these potholes on stretches of road where people regularly do 0 to 60? Do they have burnt rubber type tracks on them?

Many potholes are in the traffic lane where people are proceeding at a constant-ish speed, ie acceleration = 0.

Often they develop by water ingress into the road surface and then freeze-thaw weathering, which is why they're worse after snowy/frozen weather and at the side of the road where water collects.

Theo