DIY is not for everyone

[Tim Streater]

And in Greece, even if you don't.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Strange view. Most would hope the state will look after you if in the sad event you can't look after yourself. For whatever reason. But I'm not sure why many seem to think this must include old age care for free.

[Mike Barnes]

Mark :

A sad story, but it just goes to show that mistakes have consequences. I don't see the connection with the need for spending money on care now that people live a lot longer, which is what prompted the story.

[Mike Barnes]

I think that's an assumption rather than a message sent by the state.

Anyway, tax isn't like a Christmas club. The benefits are based on needs rather than contributions. If you have money to spare your needs are obviously less than someone that doesn't.

Anyway anyway, the situation was apparently not as I speculated.

[Tim Streater]

If they had their own currency they could devalue. If the greeks want to live a lazy lifestyle that's up to them. Where the Eurozone is not working at the moment is because they are in effect expecting German taxpayers to fund it.

In the end the German taxpayer will say f*ck that.

Presumably your right to do that is included in the small print that they overlooked.

Who did he borrow from? That sounds illegal - or was it on a credit card? What was the loan secured on?

Mmmm, you sound like one of these folks who think that the "market" is a few toffs and spivs in London, Zurich, NY, and Frankfurt. The "market" is everyone. If you loan to someone (as it might be, Greece) and then they show a remarkable inability to even pay the interest, any normal person would hesitate to make another loan. They might be persuaded if they can charge more interest, simply because the risk of default has gone up. Why is that so surprising. Or are you suggesting that lenders should say oh, have this second loan at 0%, you poor chap.

Remember that if a bank makes a loan, it's typically with someone else's money. Like yours for example.

If it's these Italian bonds you're thinking of, that are now yielding above 7%, the yield has gone up because the value of the bonds has gone down: a reflection of traders' suspicions that they may be defaulted on.

[Huge]

Hence the word "implicit". People assume that because if they are ill, they will get medical care, and if they are unemployed they will get unemployment benefit and when they are old, they will get a pension, that when they need care in old age, they will get that, too.

Yes, I know. But they don't.

(And tax is indeed not like a Christmas club. It's more like being mugged.)

In theory.

Not necessarily. The NHS doesn't care how much money you have.

[hugh]

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)" writes

I think you contradict yourself in only two/three sentences.

[hugh]

In message , Tim Streater writes

Yes a quoted "yield" can be quite misleading.

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

Back in 1976 or so, I read about the Consumer Credit Act, freshly introduced, which limited the max APR (on all loans, iirc) to 40%. I wonder what happened to that? Was it repealed, or did some enterprising chiselling bastards find loopholes in it?

[Tim Streater]

Glasgow is probably too small. I used to think common currency a good idea, until it was pointed out to me that it's a reason why, e.g. Mississippi is poor and remains poor.

I'd call having a bloated and corrupt public sector, where you get appointed based on who you know, and a public sector which accrues unjustifiable rights to itself, like generous pensions and early retirement, and a general unwillingness to pay taxes, yes, I'd call that lazy - or whatever other word you choose (we know what we mean).

Might do. The disparity is not so huge as between Germany and some of the PIIGS, though.

Not sure what you mean by "our", as regards drinks companies.

You mean you think the Chinese *should* have bailed Europe out?

So let them go bust and the lenders can take a bath. After all, that's the risk they take in loaning the money.

I don't know enough about that. Well, they paid 6.xx% today even though bond yield is over 7%.

Oh, I think it is. I think that credit card rates are usurious, personally. But then I think that it should be illegal for people to have more than one credit card each, or, failing that, illegal for banks to tempt people to switch by offering 0% for 18 months on balances.

You have to remember it's the politicians borrowing the money, not the public at large. They seem in some cases to have overpromised their publics.

[Mark]

I agree. And payday loans have APRs in *four* figures.

I think a legal *maximum* interest rate should be set for loans. This would force organisations to be more careful who they loan money to.

But it's us who have to repay it.