I have indeed never sweated a copper pipe to a lead pipe - because I don't have the skill to do the job to a professional standard and there were modern alternatives available to me. I have seen many such joints (to iron and brass as well as copper) done by professionals - ancient and modern - all of which were "wiped" into a thick layer. And even seen a few done. I was told they leaked if the lead was not built up. But you may of course be right that it was unnecessary.
Soldering is reliant on the surface tension of the filler between the two metals. I am assuming that the lead is drilled to match the copper tube. There would be minimal rocking along the length of the join and I would expect any such proposed solder joint would last longer than one relying on an O-ring. A Lead-loc will also rock when subject to sideways force.
Then you need an inspector who understands basic metallurgy.
Solder in layers isn't going to seal between layers.
Are you confusing it with plumber's metal?
The one and only I did - long before this group existed - is still leak free. Getting on for 50 years down the line. And of course it is properly supported.
I was going by old contract specifications (and before that bye-laws).
I was wrong to say it /had/ to be in layers but I have seen it done with successive pourings. It's all molten so I don't see why it would not seal.
Plumber's metal is solder.
It's great to have a post about an actual job but I'm amazed how it's become such an extended thread. Is this a sign of lockdown cabin fever?
60/40 tin/lead *is* eutectic, but that is not a typical plumbing solder, which is closer to 60/40 lead/tin.
Yup, 60/40 lead/tin (or with small amount (<=3%) f antinomy) will cross the solidus line at about 183 deg C, and the liquidus at 234.
Right - meaning you've not actually ever done it yourself?
It is a type of solder. Hence the different name.
To fix a copper pipe to lead, you'd use soft solder.
The way a lead to lead joint is done requires a technique to provide the same sort of strength as the original lead. Hence the ugly lump.
Copper to lead is already well supported. So the only thing the solder has to do is seal the joint.
I think it is more because it raises a lot of interesting issues, and there is no single good answer. Getting it done and how to do so is complicated by the lockdown, though.
Given that lead is easily malleable, the joint is not that well supported in the presence of knocks,gravity and vibration.
The copper pipe going inside the lead is going to reinforce it at that point. And why wouldn't you support the copper pipe where it joins the lead?
In message snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk>, at 13:25:57 on Mon, 4 May
2020, "Dave Plowman (News)" snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk> remarked:Because unless it's in the regs, plumbers simply won't bother.
True. Hence saying how to DIY it in this group.
I must admit, if my kitchen had been in bits for several weeks, with no sign of that changing any week soon, I'd be DIYing it, not worrying about whether I'd already paid a builder to sub it out to a plumber or not.
In message snipped-for-privacy@mid.individual.net>, at 13:03:36 on Tue, 5 May
2020, Andy Burns snipped-for-privacy@andyburns.uk remarked:Which I have been doing (perhaps FTE two days a week - but that's my rate of working, not a subby with a van load of power tools I don't have).
But some of it will eventually need signing off by building control (and I don't claim to be an expert in what foibles they have this week) and whether or not any discount can be had from the builder as result of all this stuff I've been doing for him, is still to be discovered.
Perhaps I should just invoice him for £300/day plus materials, like the other subbys?
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