Connecting polypipe to lead pipe

[Roland Perry]

In message <1opsi6c.irgh4ur8hr6iN% [e-mail], at 22:49:00 on Sat,

2 May 2020, Roger Hayter [e-mail] remarked:

The groundworks chap has already done that. Of course, it won't *be* a wall eventually, because it is being demolished to make one large room. There's already an RSJ fitted above (2 o'clock to 8 o'clock in the photo if that makes sense). But lockdown happened the day before the stub of that wall was scheduled to come out. (The main thing it's doing useful at the moment is keeping the old stopcock upright).

No, because the old stopcock will be bang in the middle of the floor of the 'corridor' around the new central island in the kitchen/diner.

The only way to re-use the lead piping internally, would be to dig around it (rather restricted space and the floor tiles are as tough as old boots) down sufficiently far to be able to fit a right-angle bend to the left, and away to where the new sink will be.

The floor where the sink is being repositioned to has been dug up already, as has the whole area on the "outside" of the wall (which is "inside" the new side extension). It was when digging that up that they discovered the lead water main, which is along the side of the house and then right angle turn into the old kitchen under the original wall.

See my original posting. That's plan B, but arranging that during lockdown is going to be difficult. It also means digging up (and reinstating) 20m of concrete path (also difficult in lockdown, as well as a fairly major project.).

In a previous house where I did a very similar project (new kitchen/diner extension at the rear) they polypiped it off the old lead main under the floorboards just inside the front door. And very little drama.

I'm probably as worried about spending another six weeks with no kitchen to speak of (we've effectively got a standpipe where the old sink was, and a 3" hole in the floor as a drain).

[Andy Burns]

Have you already dug down to the lead pipe at this proposed MDPE junction, got a photo of that bit? are the plumbers fears of it being squished justified?

[Dave Liquorice]

And some water companies will do it for free and have the moleing kit to avoid having to dig trenches...

Ours is black, mains water arrived in the early 1980's.

[Roland Perry]

In message [e-mail]>, at

09:17:20 >

Anglia Water claim you have to get the pipe to the roadside yourself.

[charles]

That is theoretically true if the stopcock is in the road. When I had a meter fitted they moved it onto my property so that the meter reader doesn't have to stand (or kneel) in the road to read the meter.

[Roger Hayter]

When I did mine (only about 7m) I dug a person sized (18' to 2') trench but with modern equipment they can do it only about 120mm wide, even if you can't do it with a mole.

If you're going to have the join outside I'd recommend an (insulated above) inspection chamber.

It doesn't, BTW, sound as though your plumber knows very much about plumbing, which is a bit worrying. Make sure he remembers pipe inserts, the best of us can forget those in the heat of the moment.

[Roland Perry]

In message [e-mail]>, at 11:16:06 on Sun, 3 May 2020, charles [e-mail]> remarked:

My meter is in the pavement, which is neither the road, nor my property. From talking to meter readers at a previous property they read them with some kind of contactless technology.

[Kellerman]

When my nest door neighbour built his new house he found that the water pipe in the street was a combination of lead piping and asbestos pipe. He wasn't allowed to connect up to the water until the street pipe was replaced with plastic. They used a mole system to do it. Funny thing was - when my water meter was fitted (some year prior) no mention was made of the street pipe.

[Roland Perry]

In message <1optqos.16691211a9l5miN% [e-mail], at 11:25:04 on Sun, 3 May 2020, Roger Hayter [e-mail] remarked:

Which would still require substantial reinstatement in what is the front path to my house.

Useful, thanks.

The main problem is a plumber who is a subby, who is not available "on demand" rather typically a week lead time) meanwhile the groundworks subby was "I've started so I'll finish" on a timescale of days.

And because they are both in theory reporting to (and being paid by) a now furloughed member of the builder's staff...

[Dave Plowman (News)]

'They' certainly banned leaded solder for end feed fittings on potable water pipe.

I'd guess some simply decided it applied to anything and everything.

Like the plumber telling my next door neighbour only an approved fitter can change her cooker. Even if electric.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

You don't need a pretty wiped joint to join lead to copper. Merely a decent seal between the two.

[charles]

The pavement is part of the public highway, even if its not the bit that cars use.

[Roland Perry]

In message [e-mail]>, at 12:49:48 on Sun, 3 May 2020, charles [e-mail]> remarked:

Yes, I know. But if a meter reader were dallying there (which I don't think hey do) they are unlikely to be run over by a car.

[Roland Perry]

In message [e-mail]>, at

11:52:43 on Sun, 3 May 2020, Kellerman [e-mail] remarked:

If you are doing lots of properties (all needing connecting to a new street pipe, whether that's water or gas) then a deploying a mole for the day is cost effective.

For a one-off, I suspect not so much.

[Robin]

Simply running solder into the join would not have passed inspection for a professional job. The solder had to be built up in layers to give the thick "bandage" to guard against leaks. The wiping wasn't just to make it look pretty.

[Fredxx]

You have provided no evidence of that.

You are comparing a but join where solder is built up as a bandage, and a join where a copper pipe enters a lead pipe for 25-50mm.

They simply do not compare. It suggests you have never connected a copper pipe to a lead pipe. There is no need for layers to guard against a leak.

[Fredxx]

I fully accept that. But that isn't the point claimed by Robin.

Quite, some here seem to hang everything on the misguided claims from a professional, even where there is a clear ulterior motive.

[Roger Hayter]

Solder joints have a propensity to separate when any forces are put on them. Lead pipes, being flexible, are likely to move significantly. Unless the copper pipe is so wedged that it can't even rock, which would need more than 50mm, there is a risk of latter leakage if the joint is subject to vibration or bending. So I think a proper wiped joint is not just a conceit of traditonal plumbers.

[Roland Perry]

In message [e-mail]>, at 08:18:57 on Sun, 3 May

2020, Andy Burns [e-mail] remarked:

The groundworks chap did. I'm trying hard not to DIY this, having commissioned, with a substantial 5-figure sum, a builder to arrange everything. But the builder has furloughed all his staff[1], and they didn't have anything I'd recognise as a useful project manager involved even to begin with.

Which even before the lockdown meant I was having to brief the subbys because otherwise they didn't know what they were supposed to be doing.

In the mean time, the groundworks chap has filled up the hole with earth, and the plumber flatly refuses to do any digging.

[1] One of the reasons I chose this builder was because his literature says all the work is done by full-time employees. But that's a battle for another day.

[Roger Hayter]

When I had a similar sized project a few years ago, with some extras included and few unexpected snags, I did the odd bit to help on days the builders weren't there. And I found them quite happy and it was probably reflected in the final price, as they could well have charged me somewhat more. Electrical an plumbing were especially well received as the subcontractors were well elusive.