I don't know how recent - ours was replaced in '92 and is blue. That's only
28 years and a poster down-thread says black 40 years ago. An Anglian Water chap said that MDPE is used because HDPE is too expensive - this must have been 15+ years ago, so is the black pipe HDPE?
There are a number of "transition" fittings available, that are designed to connect to lead pipes and some other pipe type. They usually work very well IME. Even if the pipe is a bit misshapen, there ought to be a bit of the run where one will be useable.
That is the traditional (and now deprecated) way of doing it. Its called a "wiped joint". You would start by cutting and cleaning up the lead, then splaying the end a little bit so that a stub of copper pipe could be stuffed up the end of it. The whole joint was then fluxed up, and pre heated - but not enough to melt the lead pipe.
You could then add solder from a bar of plumbers solder (i.e. non eutectic alloy with a wide temperature range between fully solid and fully liquid) using the blowtorch mostly on the solder, or it could be splashed on from a preheated crucible of it. The final stage was to manually "wipe" it into the right shape and form, using a cloth pad or wooded stick, covered in tallow.
If its a hard water area, the lead tends to acquire a yellow/orange coating on the inside that isolates it from direct contact with the water anyway.
It specifically needs to be a proper old school plumbers solder (typically something like an 80/20 lead/tin alloy).
That is well away from the eutectic point and so has a wide temperature range between solid and fully liquid. It gives plenty of working time while its in a "plastic" state, and can be tooled into shape.
Thanks for the correction. On reflection, I have no doubt that is what the plumbers' merchant gave me! And of course it is used to create a
3D shape rather then just forming a layer between two mechanically interlocked objects. Although the joined pipes do have to overlap, whether both or only one is lead, AFAIK. Was the same alloy used to join two lead pipes?
My dad used to be proud of his ability to make a "wiped joint" - this was a long time ago but I think he hammered a wooden cone into the end of the lead pipe (to make it circular and flared) then soldered a copper pipe into the flared section of lead. Perhaps a modern plumber doesn't know how to do it ...
Yes, or to repair a split or a hole.
The cloth pad being known as "moleskin", as originally mentioned by Andy Burns.
I wonder why it is deprecated, though. Arguably more reliable, if done properly, than this new fangled plastic and O-ring stuff that barely lasts 50 years.
AIUI ever more focus on lead contamination in potable water supplies: new regulations last century effectively banned the addition of lead anywhere in them - pipe or fittings. I think you can still use it for other water supplies.
I'll defer to others on whether it can still be used to create wiped joints on lead sheathed cables (as here and in many houses). But I doubt Adam would like to let many of his apprentices loose with torches and molten metal.
IIUC, yup...
I think the only time you would try to actually "weld" lead (i.e. using just lead as a filler rather than solder), is when lead "burning"[1].
Having tin in the alloy lowers the melting point to below that of the pure lead.
[1] Typically on roof work etc, where you are in effect welding up seams using a very fine torch flame to soften the base metal (but not too much!), melt in the filler (same stuff, but smaller volume), and get it all to fuse nicely, while trying to avoid ending up with a big molten mess!
Probably a combination of not wanting to introduce any new lead into the wholesome water supply, and also deskilling the job to a point where reliable joints can be made nearly first time every time by plumbers not schooled in lead work (which will likely be most these days).
(you see much the same in other building trades - like preferring joist hangers over more intricate and skilled joinery techniques)
like the 'plumber' who fitted out our Utility Room and didn't put the inner sleevs on the main pipes. A year later we noticed all the mdf was swelling.
I would suggest its more forgivable (although not much!) for a newish plumber to have little leadwork experience, but less so to be unskilled with plastic pipes as well!
Which is what I did as part of a major refurb. The water company (SE Water) didn't want to know, said it was my problem. My builders dug the trench, the plumber replaced the whole run.
In message snipped-for-privacy@mid.individual.net>, at 09:26:22 on Fri, 1 May
2020, Mark Carver snipped-for-privacy@>> [My preference is to polypipe all the way to the water meter in theI'd have expected the water company to be interested in a least supervising (on behalf of the highway authority) the couple of feet between the front of my property and the water meter in the pavement. At my expense, obviously!
Hi, You need to use a leadlock adapter to adapt lead pipe to copper first. Law prohibits 'sweating' lead to copper now so its the only way. You may have to ream the lead to make it round and file the outside to create a perfect fit to the deadlock adapter. N
That's what I thought too, but they couldn't give a monkey's. Although in my case, the water meter is a good 3 metres away from the highway
In message snipped-for-privacy@mid.individual.net>, at 14:22:26 on Fri, 1 May
2020, Mark Carver snipped-for-privacy@invalid.invalid remarked:
So you weren't digging up the highway??
QED.
In message snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com, at
02:14:48 on Fri, 1 May 2020, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com remarked:
Thanks for that, I'll mention it to the plumber next week, and see what he says.
Since when if you're using lead free solder?
Or indeed leaded for any non-potable application.
Nope, not even a pavement, the water meter is under a hedge
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