Changing house name ( OT).

[Frank Erskine]

My mum's 93 years old. Should she be expected to learn how to use a computer?

She was quite a bit younger when she mastered that!

[Andy Hall]

My father is almost that old. He has.

It's part of the conveyor belt of life. If you think about it, there aren't any technologies that have not been introduced or developed (assuming that they are commercially viable) because a section of the population couldn't use them. It's not an argument not to do them.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

There's little difference between a horse drawn bus and a motorised one. Not everyone can drive.

[Graeme]

Yes, it is.

That is a completely different argument, and you know it. By law, RM

*must* deliver to every address, for the same price. Fact. Whether or not it is required is beside the point.

Granny cannot send an e-mail if Granny cannot use a computer, or the recipient cannot.

Quite possibly, but again, that is hardly the point.

Possible, perhaps yes, but realistic? No.

True - but using a directory was faster!

You are of my generation. You have grown up using computers, and are happy to do so. Yes, there are many 'silver surfers' also happy, but there are far more who just cannot grasp PINs and plastic cards, never mind computers. Things will change, as older people die. Nothing changes overnight.

Doubtless there were millions of people alive when buses were introduced, and equally doubtless a great many of them went to their graves never having used any form of motorised transport.

I don't doubt that will happen, in time.

I should have said have access to. Most people have access to, via a public library, but that does not provide the skill or confidence to use it.

I hardly think that using a television is comparable to using a computer.

[Andy Hall]

Mmm....

But you've got to admit that London Transport don't have all that many horse drawn buses in operation these days.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

And? Postmen in rural areas don't drive Morris Minor vans anymore either.

[Andy Hall]

No. They only "have" to do this because the law is the way that it is. Laws can be changed or dumped entirely - they are a means to an end, not a raison d'etre.

It's exactly the point.

Then Granny and the recipient should be disappointed. There aren't carrier pigeon services or mail coaches to York any more either.

Again it's exactly the point.

Completely realistic.

Consider another technology area. Mobile phones. Deployment of these is growing at a far greater rate than fixed line. For most of the world's population, they have or will make their first phone call on one. text messaging is built in and easy to use.

Actually it was pretty good. I've used them a few times.

It's going to change awfully quickly. Consider that before about 1990 the Internet was the preserve of those technically able to work out how to use it and that wasn't easy. Now it's a plug and play thing with "broadband" available to the masses.

Another 10-15 years and I think that paper based mail services will be largely irrelevant. Put it this way. I might buy more stock in Fedex. I sure as hell wouldn't buy any in Royal Mail.

Of course. But nobody gave a second thought about introducing motorised transport.

Really rather quickly and the quicker the better.

Once again the mentality that there needs to be some kind of public sector involvement in provisioning of this kind of thing. All the time that there are these attempts to spoon feed people rather poorly, they won't take responsibility for themselves. As soon as they have to make their own arrangements, they will.

Both are sources of information, as is buying a newspaper or a magazine. They inform and they entertain. There is absolutely no reason why a computer is not the same other than in people's minds and because there are people telling them that they can't do things. They can.

[Andy Hall]

or have cats called Jess......

[Steve Firth]

[Steve Firth]

Postman Pat drives a Hundy Atoz.

[Andy Hall]

Ah.... bless......

[Andy Hall]

Mmm...

Which is why I have stopped dealing with both firms and have told them why.

Plus I don't like the look of the guy on the front cover of the Viking catalogue.

[The Medway Handyman]

I've always wondered how come long distance telephone calls cost the consumer more than local calls? And how come a letter sent from Lands End to John O'Groats is the same price as sending one to the next street?

[Stuart Noble]

I'd say your general philosophy is slightly to the right of Atilla The Hun. What a bleak vision you have of the world.

[Tony Bryer]

Well, to name but two, Dell and Viking don't think sending out paper a waste of time and outdated. They send me paper by the ream, presumably because it is an more effective way of selling. ISTM that the amount of 'junk mail' is growing not declining.

[Andy Hall]

Not at all.

The bleak vision of the world is one where people are not self sufficient. Quite simply, it doesn't scale. There's nothing worse than putting people down or making excuses for them.

The Chinese proverb:

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.

I'd take that a step further:

Show him how to learn and he will be able to find out how to fish, feed himself for a lifetime and do a great deal more besides.

[Andy Hall]

Chairman Emeritus eh....

I must admit I didn't know that they were connected with Office Deepo.

[Bob Eager]

They used to, because there was more work (multiple operators) involved.

But most *consumer* tariffs haven't differentiated for a while now...althiugh business ones can.

[Tony Bryer]

In that case it was probably a case of using price to keep down demand. ISTR hearing stories of villages that only had a couple of lines linking them with the outside world.

Similar thing about having cheaper calls after 1pm and cheaper again in the evening, cheap cross-Channel trips at unsocial times, discounted theatre tickets earlier in the week: make more money off your existing infrastructure rather than expand it to meet peak demand and see it even more under-utilised at other times.

[Tony Bryer]

Irwin Helford.

- "Official Irwin Helford Fan Club"

"Growing up as one of four sons of Chicago-area restaurateurs, I. Helford (real name Irwin or Ian as his UK friends will know him as), majored in Marketing at Roosevelt University from 1950 - 1952 before going on active duty with the U.S. Navy. After his tour of duty, Helford married and went to work for the Wilson Jones Company in Chicago, which at the time was the largest manufacturer of office supplies, where he did shipping, warehouse work, customer service and sales. From there, he became general manager of the Reliable Corp. in Chicago, another major office products supplier, where he worked his way up over 24 years to vice president. Helford moved to southern California in 1984 to become president and chief operating officer of Viking Office Products, which he later built into the largest direct-mail office products retailer in the United States, Europe and Australia. Under his leadership, company sales grew from less than $15 million in the U.S. in 1983 to more than $1.6 billion worldwide by

1998.served as Chairman of Viking's Board and Chief Executive Officer of Viking from September 1984 until August 1998 when Viking merged with Office Depot. Since September 1999 Irwin has served as Chairman Emeritus of their Viking subsidiary."

You know I find it such a joy to deal with a firm whose boss can take the trouble to look at my file and drop me a personal note "I see you haven't ordered any green copy paper since ...."