Antex Pipemaster Pro - quick review

On Saturday 27 July 2013 21:37 Dave Liquorice wrote in uk.d-i-y:

Oh bollocks - stupid for me as I'd been reading Conex's web page earlier and had seen press fit! Brain auto parse error...

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On 27/07/2013 21:37, Dave Liquorice wrote:

A similar system was shown on the American Chopper TV programme recently albeit with pipes 2 inch to 12 inch diameter. The team were going to use it as part of a motor bike but decided against it main because they didn't think the pipe was strong through for their purposes BUT in a "throw away" line the pipe/tool representative said that the joint could fail with vibration.
It was also implied that the copper pipe had to be of the highest quality.
In a domestic environment I assume vibration could heat/cooling cycling in a central heating system, water hammer etc.
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[snip]

Another. I'm using Rifeng tube and fittings that are compatible with Wavin Tigris:
http://www.redlinepex.com/rifeng_s/84.htm
http://overseas.wavin.com/master/master.jsp?products=products&middleTemplateName=oc_middle_system_detail_I&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id%34374305497592&c=products&p=/Assortments/017/017/External_017_Products/Drinking_Water_Supply/Hot_Cold_Systems/WavinMP/WavinTigrisK1

These fittings are crimped onto the tube using a hand, hydraulic or electrically operated press. They can't be demounted once fixed.
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On 27/07/2013 23:22, Steve Firth wrote:

I hope they use good O rings. I can't help think that push fit is easier and likely to be just as good. Plastic is also rated at a higher working temp and pressure.
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On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 23:56:44 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

or

The plastic crimp system that Mr Firth pointed to looks to use three.

I doubt it, a similar system is used to put the ends on hydralic hoses working at considerably higher pressures than an domestic water system will encounter.

Higher than what? When I've looked at the specs for plastic it's a bit borderline for use on a conventional (70 ish C flow) CH system with more than two floors. The pressure derates rather quickly with temperature and the recomended distance between supports decreases as well.
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On 28/07/2013 12:22, Dave Liquorice wrote:

IIRC the stuff I used was 10 bar at 90c, the stuff Steve said was 10 barr at 60C.
I'm not going to start crimping stuff now, I don't do enough of it.
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On Sun, 28 Jul 2013 14:40:57 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

with

as

Hum Speedfit PEX barrier pipe in central heating: Normal working temp 82 C, Max working temp 105 C, short term malfunction at 114 C, max working pressure 3 bar.
Hep2o is better max 6 bar at 80 C.
Poly pipe has a similar spec to Speedfit that is around 3 bar at 80 C.

Niether am I, end fed or compression here...
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On 27/07/2013 14:03, Onetap wrote:

Rodents can gnaw copper pipe too.

I have thirty year old plastic plumbing and its fine. I have known copper tube to fail at about 20 years.

I've just had dozens done in the loft.
And a coil or two of plastic.
The solar thermal is all mechanical joints, no solder.
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On Saturday, July 27, 2013 6:56:32 PM UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:

Only those with tungsten carbide dentures; much less likely that plastic pipe or PVC cable insulation.
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On 27/07/2013 14:03, Onetap wrote:

That would mean no cable should be put in loft, as they are PVC sheathed ?
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On Sunday, July 28, 2013 9:11:44 AM UTC+1, Rick Hughes wrote:

Unlike tubes, there's no easily available alternative; maybe steel conduit.
Rodents are a known, small risk with plastic pipe systems (and PVC insulated cables). There are numerous advantages and disadvantages; plastic has no scrap value and is less likely to be nicked. Pay your money and make your choice. A plumber may recommend plastic, since it makes his job easier, but may neglect to mention the disadvantages
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Quite. Rather the same as asking his advice on which boiler to buy. Or where it should be sited.
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Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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On 28/07/2013 13:43, Onetap wrote:

What are the main disadvantages of plastic, apart from materials cost?
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On Monday 29 July 2013 19:47 RJH wrote in uk.d-i-y:

Bulky, not mouse proof and o-ring seals are less proven than soldered fittings.
However, to be fair, even copper has had it's problems with poor quality batches pinholing.
Though, I prefer pinholing as a failure mode vs sudden gush. I also avoid flexi tails where possible.
If I did not want to solder or use compression, I would use cuprofit with copper. That just leaves the o-ring.
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On Monday, July 29, 2013 7:47:02 PM UTC+1, RJH wrote:

Thermal expansion, sags all over the place when it's hot. Bulky fittings look unsightly. It's not really suitable for installation anywhere visible. Mice. You can scratch it, dragging it through holes in joists and then find the fittings leak. You can't drag (half-hard) copper through holes in joists. Oxygen permeable; the barrier layer is usually a surface coating and can get rubbed off. No scrap value, not recyclable.
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On 29/07/2013 21:10, Onetap wrote:

Copper sags if you don't clip it properly.

The fittings are the same as copper except for solder, you can use cuprofit and compression if you want.

Compression fittings on copper leak if you are clumsy enough to scratch the pipe.

You can if the end is accessible and you line up the holes well enough.

Its a three layer extrusion on all the plastic barrier pipes I have seen.

You could recycle it, there doesn't appear to be anyone doing so. There isn't much of it scrap ATM, maybe in 30 years there will be. I have reused it when doing plumbing changes.
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On Tuesday 30 July 2013 11:19 dennis@home wrote in uk.d-i-y:

You'd clean it up anyway prior to soldering.

Both are a lot better than lead which would split at the first sight of frost.
I've had JG Speedfit outside for several winters, frozen and it survived (plastic has some give).
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On 30/07/2013 11:23, Tim Watts wrote:

My parents had lead mains and they regularly froze and leaked.

I have had some PB pipe and some copper pipe outside for over 25 years. They have frozen a few times. the tap burst once. the copper pipe pushed the joint out a couple of times. the pressure reducer burst once.
The plastic has survived so far. I usually drain it all but as you can tell from above I have forgotten to do so.
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You'd solder dirty pipe? Stick to plastic.
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Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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On 30/07/2013 14:39, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

You can't clean deep scratches, how deep ask a plumber, or not.
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