Advice requested: wireless microphone for use with laptop

[Apologies for cross-posting to uk.d-i-y but I was advised that there's a wealth of good people there even though this is an Audio question]

Our local junior ice hockey club wants to announce various messages to the gathering masses (all three of them at most games!). I've already plumbed my old laptop in to the Public Address system so we can play appropriate music at the game stoppages.

So now my idea is to get a wireless radio microphone of some reasonable quality to feed in to the microphone input of the laptop and thence on out the headphone socket and through the PA (we need wireless because the timekeeper's bench and the DJ area are some 50metres apart). Plumbing through the laptop to use its mixing capabilities.

A cheap (=A312) radio microphone off Ebay is no use. I've even wired up a quarter-inch jack socket to a 3.5mm jack plug the proper way but it's still no use. (The "proper way" is to ignore the middle ring power connection on the stereo 3.5mm jack for the electret microphones commonly used with laptops. I've done some research here, but am willing to admit my fallibility).

I'm looking for advice: Anyone done this before? What impedance microphone should I look for? Any good sources for the kit?

The club have a budget up to (I guess) =A3100 but cannot afford much more for anything sophisticated.

Any help appreciated; thanks in advance

Mungo

Reply to
Mungo
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Our local junior ice hockey club wants to announce various messages to the gathering masses (all three of them at most games!). I've already plumbed my old laptop in to the Public Address system so we can play appropriate music at the game stoppages.

So now my idea is to get a wireless radio microphone of some reasonable quality to feed in to the microphone input of the laptop and thence on out the headphone socket and through the PA (we need wireless because the timekeeper's bench and the DJ area are some 50metres apart). Plumbing through the laptop to use its mixing capabilities.

A cheap (£12) radio microphone off Ebay is no use. I've even wired up a quarter-inch jack socket to a 3.5mm jack plug the proper way but it's still no use. (The "proper way" is to ignore the middle ring power connection on the stereo 3.5mm jack for the electret microphones commonly used with laptops. I've done some research here, but am willing to admit my fallibility).

I'm looking for advice: Anyone done this before? What impedance microphone should I look for? Any good sources for the kit?

The club have a budget up to (I guess) £100 but cannot afford much more for anything sophisticated.

Any help appreciated; thanks in advance

Mungo

Sadly, the cheaper wireless microphone systems I've looked at offer a range smaller than you seem to need, typically 30m, maximum 50m.

Secondly, the cheaper systems don't provide diversity receivers, which means that you can get considerable fading as the microphone is moved. Thirdly, the cheaper systems operate on fixed frequencies, and you may find that the frequency you are on is already occupied by something else. The better systems offer greater range, selectable channel frequencies and diversity reception, all of which I would suggest you need in your circumstances, but they cost nearer £ 200. Maplin has a system for £180.

What didn't work with your existing set-up? It may be possible to fix that.

S.

Reply to
Serge Auckland

Don't mix through the laptop. Buy a little Behringer mixer and use that. The price is so low it's a no-brainer.

Reply to
Laurence Payne

Well, you could use a new Bluetooth dongle that supports high quality headphones. This will also give you the ability to input audio from the headphone microphone on a high quality audio headset.

I'm using a Motorola headphone for a similar application. If you're using a PC then the headset simply shows up as yet another audio input device and you can simply select "Bluetooth Audio" as the input source.

If you *don't* want to use a headset, there are Bluetooth boxes which take input via 3.5mm jack and route it over Bluetooth. The only problem with the ones I've seen is that they are line level input, not intended for use with microphones.

Reply to
Steve Firth

For which you or the venue will require appropriate licences for performing rights and mechanical copyright.

50 metres isn't a problem for a low-impedance balanced microphone with a good quality cable, in fact my "Public Address and Sound Distribution Handbook" (1956) says that "provided twin-twisted screened cable is used at low impedance, runs of hundreds of yards are practicable" and "runs of up to two miles can be successfully operated by using a one-to-one transformer on the end of the line just prior to fixing into the microphone channel of any standard microphone mixing unit".

Probably not a good move. Get a small mixer if necessary, but you might not need one if the DJ mic input is low Z.

£100 will buy quite a lot of good quality microphone flex - Maplin or Canford have it in lots of pretty fluorescent colours. It will probably take less time to unreel a cable reel (especially if you use a mains-type cable reel and mount a socket on it, so the whole reel does not have to be unwound before use) than to set up a wireless system.

Owain

Reply to
Owain

Agreed, trying to do this with a PC isn't all the sensible, let alone a laptop. By all means still use it as a source for the music but a cheap CD player may well be more reliable and almost anybody can operate a CD player. What happens if you can't make a match, are you going to lend your laptop to someone? If you do will they be able to use it and get it working if it misbehaves?

As for a cable, yes reliable if the cable route doesn't cross an entrance onto the ice unprotected and no problem of 50m provided it is balanced. Think of the FX mics around a football pitch, probably on the end of several hundred metres of cable by the time it gets to the OB truck ouside the ground. I suspect the mic is required at both places and radio does give you the freedom to wander from Sin Bin to Sin Bin, into the punters, out onto the ice for presentations etc. Draging a cable with even half a dozen people in the way is a PITA not to mention unsafe.

What to look for in a radio mic is true diversity reception, decent battery life, and power output (but watch for marketing hype). I'm not sure if any of the "licence free" ones will have more than one frequency available. Make it a condition of sale that if it turns out that the church down next door also uses the same frequency that you can return it for a full refund.

Reply to
Dave Liquorice

I've had a few replies from my colleagues in the business, and the general consensus is you'll have to have a fund raising event. About 350 is nearer the mark for something reliable and reasonably bomb proof.

It's not a matter of sophistication but merely performance.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

Alternatively, use Bluetooth, get 100m range, and you don't have to worry.

Reply to
Steve Firth

Radio mics, surely? Just as it's a long time since I saw the roving interviewer and his camera dragging a cable behind him? Maybe things are less developed in America :-)

Reply to
Laurence Payne

No - fx mics will usually be cabled. Remember many if not most football grounds in the UK have at least some broadcasting cabling installed permanently. As do racecourses.

If an FX mic has to be suspended above spectators it would need a rope etc if a radio, so why not just use a cabled mic for this purpose?

Most sensible sound men only use radios when necessary. ;-)

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

I've got some advice from colleagues since I don't have much to do with this end of the market - the ones I use cost well over 2000 quid each. ;-(

I'm posting it here rather than direct to Mungo as it may be of interest to others.

From arguably the most knowledgeable person in the country on radio mics:-

*************

In descending order of price ( and quite a bit of "get what you pay for") I would suggest the following for consideration:

Sennheiser G2 Evolution 300 series

Shure PGX

Sennheiser Freeport

Handheld Audio probably are the best people to offer the widest choice.

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************

And from another:-

************

Audio Technica liberator range around £160 - licence exempt VHF

***********
Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

No, a football pitch (UK meaning) normally has 12 FX mics placed around it. Getting 12 radio mics to work together without interference is not that simple. It can be done but the effort required means it is only done when it has to be. Getting reliable coverage from the perimeter of a football might be an issue as well, the are mics low down possibly close and behind metal advertising boards. Then there is the cost, you'd be looking at doubling or, much more likely, tripling the capital cost. Oh sound quality, top end radio mics are very good these days but they still can't handle large dynamic ranges very well. Football crowds and stadium PAs have a fairly huge dynamic range. I can't see any real gain over using cables.

Reply to
Dave Liquorice

Firstly, many thanks to all the kind people who responded - I now have enough ammunition to confront the club with some suggestions and take it forward from there. I still reserve the right to come back with more questions (please).

Mungo

Owa>

With respect to Owain for his kind help, and risking invocation of his wrath, I didn't raise the issue of "appropriate licences" and I take some umbrage at the insinuation that we are doing anything illegal. I'm sure Owain meant well, but you know which road is paved with good intentions! :-)

For anyone that wants to share in the program (its a Java program, no music supplied) then please wander over to

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fight Java to get the damn thing working!

Regards

Mungo

Reply to
Mungo

Premiership grounds but not many others do. At the smaller grounds even BT has to put in some Dropwire No.10 for the DELs...

I don't count COOBE/ISDN for local radio coverage a "broadcast cabling", I'm thing of multies, triax, BT fibre etc.

Yes, mostly part of Racetech. Drive up, drag a loom out plug it in, power up and there you have the standard facilties for the betting coverage and "officals" (Can't remember what you call 'em at racecourses, not umpires, judges...). Haven't done the GeeGees for ages since the BBC lost most of the meetings to channel 4.

Reply to
Dave Liquorice

I'm not aware of any Bluetooth devices that offer a full bandwidth audio link. Any delays due to digital processing might be a issue as well, partly for the commentator/presentor trying to talk against himself coming out of the PA delayed but also "interesting" feedback effects. Ice Hockey is NOISEY the PA will be cranked up...

Reply to
Dave Liquorice

Oh, I'm sorry to hear about your ignorance.

And Bluetooth sets are available with noise cancelling microphones, and if they are time-shifted feedback is hardly likely to be a problem. But I suspect you exaggerate for comic effect.

Reply to
Steve Firth

Always willing to learn, care to enlighten me?

Reply to
Dave Liquorice

Yes. I've not seen a sudden proliferation of Bluetooth radio mics...

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

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Why should you need a Bluetooth radio microphone? It's simple to connect any microphone through one of these devices.

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?productID=950018722
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you may recall that since the initial question was about microphone and headset that I suggested using a Bluetooth headset with a built in microphone.

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?loc=product&Item=GBMH201I would suspect that this device is more up your particular street and TBH I'm bloody surprised you never heard about it (or similar).

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owe me £500+VAT BTW for professional consultancy.

Reply to
Steve Firth

The world is full of such things - but I don't use them. ;-)

BTW there's a world of difference between domestic and pro solutions. Most Bluetooth gear and headsets etc would be but a pile of broken plastic after the first use...

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

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