Adding an extra 13A socket ...

[T i m]

Just a quick question.

What is the (legal?) position re me / one adding an extra double socket (next to an existing) in a living room for / with a non d-i-y mate?

I mean, I believe we (or 'competent people' at least) can do some electrical stuff for ourselves but does it still need signing off to maintain the 'tested' status for insurance purposes etc?

If it was 'ok' for me to do it (for / with him as a mate, not as a 'job' etc), would it be better to try to get the new socket into the existing ring [1] or failing that, could it be a spur (assuming 2.5mm T&E)?

Cheers, T i m

[1] I think it's all plasterboard on battens but as yet have no idea how much room there is behind the location of the additional box (or where the battens are etc).

[Dave Plowman (News)]

IIRC, nothing legally to stop you doing this in your own house. But obviously, if only competent.

If very close to an existing one and cavity walls etc, hopefully you can pull one of the ring cables to the new location and add a new link cable between them. But a single double socket spur is also ok. I'd avoid having to extend one of the existing ring cables to make it reach the new socket, though.

[www.GymRatZ.co.uk]

You can do whatever you like in/to your own home, or indeed others homes providing you're not acting as/in a commercial entity/capacity.

Only issue might be if you injure/kill someone through incompetence/neglect that questions might be raised but I'd then suggest at worst it would be manslaughter should someone die through your actions, although adding a socket as a localised spur is highly unlikely to create such a risk.

You might of course do some hatchet job and set fire to the house which would leave you/them un-insured should it be proven (or by inadvertent/coerced admittance i.e. self incrimination) it was of your doing; if buying into the home insurance scam is your thing, irrelevant if you don't do of course.

The whole "you must not do electrical/gas stuff" is the bullshit spread by affiliated trade bodies, and brainwashed into the masses to preserve and protect lucrative organisations and their subscribers. Also perpetuated by the media and dribbling half-wits that suck up anything they're told by anyone acting under the guise of an/the "authority" on such matters.

IOW if you are blessed with common sense (born pre-internet/mobile phones) there's no problem.

:)

[Chris Hogg]

Have you or he thought of one of these?

Might get around any problems associated with breaking into the ring or connecting via a spur.

[Andy Burns]

or someone else's house, and even charging them for it.

of course, it's an existing circuit, not in a "special location" so part-P doesn't apply.

If it's easy to extend the ring then that could be seen as best, but spurs are perfectly allowable, make sure the existing socket isn't already a spur, spurs must be fused if they have more than one single or double socket.

[GB]

If there were a fire because you utterly ballsed it up and someone died, you might well be tried. Manslaughter through gross negligence would most probably be the charge. I see no reason why, just because you're an unpaid amateur, that should not apply.

I think the courts would take the view that electrickery is known to be dangerous stuff, and even an amateur should be held to account if his work falls well short of competent.

As you're a careful bloke, it's unlikely to happen, but you did ask about the legal position.

[T i m]

That was a concern as I thought I remembered it was ok to blow yourself up but not blow up others. ;-)

Not the case here but good to know.

Ok.

Understood.

I don't think it is as this was all part of a fairly recent (a couple of years ago) bare bones refit.

Oh .. I wouldn't have considered that.

Just to confirm ... if you added as a spur of a pair of double of 13A sockets off and existing double on a ring, you would have to fit a fused faceplate (type thing) in between them?

Cheers, T i m

[Andy Burns]

so, adding a total of four new sockets? you'd want an FCU between the ring and the first new socket.

[T i m]

Well, I wired (I can't say re-wired as there wasn't much) this house on my own 40 years ago and it was all pretty straightforward.

I was reminded the other day that 45 years ago I ran some SWA out to a pond pump and that they have only just pulled it all out (still working). ;-)

I've probably done 10's of similar jobs for people over the years, when it was considered ok for someone who had done Electrical Installation at college when they were 15 to do such things.

The questions were more along the lies of 'is it advised / acceptable' to do such things for a mate, rather than just for yourself.

I'd rather someone else do it as I really don't need the faf but for some reason they want me to do it ...

Cheers, T i m

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Just how would anyone know just who had done that work - unless the owner held his hands up?

I've seen plenty pro sparks leave things in a dangerous condition. Usually poorly tightened connections.

It's not rocket science adding a socket, following the advice on here. Something like 80% building work and 20% electrics.

[GB]

It's good that we're in agreement about this. ;)

You trimmed this bit: "As you're a careful bloke, it's unlikely to happen, but you did ask about the legal position."

[T i m]

No, I'm pretty sure neither of us have Chris (and I know he (she) wouldn't go for it if he did). ;-)

I did suggest a surge protected short trailing lead as the surge protection would be 'good' for expensive game consoles and the like but that was turned down as well. ;-(

Cheers, T i m

[John Rumm]

No problem.

You can do *any* electrical work yourself. All of it needs to be done to BS7671 or a compatible standard. *some* of it would be classed as "notifiable".

Notifiable jobs would include additions or non trivial changes in a bathroom, or room with sauna or pool. Adding a whole new circuit, or changing a consumer unit.

Adding sockets to a living room is non notifiable.

Yes, and you can charge him as well if you want... this is not gas work where working professionally would require gas safe membership.

If its easy to add into the ring, then that is slightly preferable, but a spur is also acceptable.

You can use a stud finder, or a metal detector, or even just a strong magnet to find the fixings in the PB.

[T i m]

Quite.

Agreed.

I am, hopefully and I did indeed (so thanks). ;-)

My question was really 'is it illegal for 'one' to do this sort of thing for a friend (full stop)'.

If it isn't (and it appears it isn't?) and as long as all the components and techniques used conform to the current regs and would be considered 'good working practice' by those in the know, the chances are there would be little problem?

It's like if someone asks me to have a look at their TV / Video / Laptop and it involves doing anything inside of the outsides or that might put it (or them) at risk, they are told in no uncertain terms I do so at their risk (if I decide to do it at all). So, because of that I wouldn't repair a laptop PSU (replacing a lead etc) for someone

*else* but suggest *they* buy a genuine replacement (but might point them in the right direction on Amazon / eBay etc).

Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

Sorry (my bad), just two (one double off an existing double).

But the same would apply I'm guessing.

Cheers, T i m

[Brian Gaff]

So what is the insurance angle, surely if a socket is wired right it cannot be unsafe. Brian

[T i m]

Understood (and I would try very hard to make it so).

Ok.

Yup, I have one at the ready. ;-)

Understood.

Ironically I did see the wall in question as it was being done (re remembering where the battens / studs were) but that was 2+ years ago. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[Andy Burns]

The MK 3-gang faceplates are not so ugly

[Andy Burns]

I did wonder about the "pair of doubles"

One single socket, or one double socket can connect direct to an existing point on the ring, without an FCU.

[John Rumm]

Its not unknown for the person building it to make pencil marks on the floor indicating the stud positions... ;-)