Adding an extra 13A socket ...

Just a quick question.
What is the (legal?) position re me / one adding an extra double socket (next to an existing) in a living room for / with a non d-i-y mate?
I mean, I believe we (or 'competent people' at least) can do some electrical stuff for ourselves but does it still need signing off to maintain the 'tested' status for insurance purposes etc?
If it was 'ok' for me to do it (for / with him as a mate, not as a 'job' etc), would it be better to try to get the new socket into the existing ring [1] or failing that, could it be a spur (assuming 2.5mm T&E)?
Cheers, T i m
[1] I think it's all plasterboard on battens but as yet have no idea how much room there is behind the location of the additional box (or where the battens are etc).
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IIRC, nothing legally to stop you doing this in your own house. But obviously, if only competent.
If very close to an existing one and cavity walls etc, hopefully you can pull one of the ring cables to the new location and add a new link cable between them. But a single double socket spur is also ok. I'd avoid having to extend one of the existing ring cables to make it reach the new socket, though.
--
*A 'jiffy' is an actual unit of time for 1/100th of a second.

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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Dave Plowman wrote:

or someone else's house, and even charging them for it.

of course, it's an existing circuit, not in a "special location" so part-P doesn't apply.
If it's easy to extend the ring then that could be seen as best, but spurs are perfectly allowable, make sure the existing socket isn't already a spur, spurs must be fused if they have more than one single or double socket.
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wrote:

That was a concern as I thought I remembered it was ok to blow yourself up but not blow up others. ;-)

Not the case here but good to know.

Ok.

That would be my goal.

Understood.

I don't think it is as this was all part of a fairly recent (a couple of years ago) bare bones refit.

Oh .. I wouldn't have considered that.
Just to confirm ... if you added as a spur of a pair of double of 13A sockets off and existing double on a ring, you would have to fit a fused faceplate (type thing) in between them?
Cheers, T i m
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T i m wrote:

so, adding a total of four new sockets? you'd want an FCU between the ring and the first new socket.
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wrote:

Sorry (my bad), just two (one double off an existing double).

But the same would apply I'm guessing.
Cheers, T i m
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T i m wrote:

I did wonder about the "pair of doubles"

One single socket, or one double socket can connect direct to an existing point on the ring, without an FCU.
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wrote:
<snip> >One single socket, or one double socket can connect direct to an

Check, thanks Andy.
Cheers, T i m
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On 20/09/2018 16:11, T i m wrote:

One socket (single or double) on a spur is ok unfused. Since the single run of 2.5mm^2 T&E has adequate fault protection provided by the MCB at the origin of the circuit, and overload protection by virtue of the nominal max load being less than the minimum installed capacity of a single bit of cable.
Once you go beyond that, then you would need to provide additional fusing locally to protect the cable against overload.
Multiple sockets are obviously better incorporated into a ring (assuming that's what's there in the first place).
Note that you can still extend a ring even if you only have access to it at one socket location, just by taking both ends of your new bit of ring to it, and joining appropriately:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Easy_socket_extensions
--
Cheers,

John.
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On Thu, 20 Sep 2018 16:56:20 +0100, John Rumm

Understood.

Check.

Agreed (and what I've always done in the past, even to the point of running a new cable into the 'short' leg (here, so all the cabling was in trunking). ;-)

I generally work on the principal that every run of (mains power) cable is continuous, that way you can never have any issues with joints. I'm not saying I don't use junction boxes where it's not convenient to daisychain but the cables from A to B are continuous. ;-)
That was the case for the cable joining the socket on the landing to the one in the hall in my mates new build house. Shame they were only connected to each other. ;-(
Tested much?
Cheers, T i m
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On 20/09/2018 21:21, T i m wrote:

Well you have a joint at every socket... so doing it the way described keeps all the joints at the socket location, even if some are not using terminals mounted in the socket.

--
Cheers,

John.
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On Fri, 21 Sep 2018 01:35:44 +0100, John Rumm

Of course, but none in between ideally?

Understood.
Cheers, T i m
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On 22/09/2018 17:19, T i m wrote:

Which if think about it laterally, can simply mean you add a socket more than you actually needed -just so you have a convenient place to join into the existing wiring.
(there are a number of other reasons I have installed a socket, including needing an access hole for something in a wall, and that was a handy way to fill it!)
--
Cheers,

John.
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On Sat, 22 Sep 2018 21:08:38 +0100, John Rumm

Sure, but the wiring *in between* is continuous.

No, and that's fine (and may have done so myself. However, if I was to remove that 'joint' / socket for some reason and if it was practical, I would still rather replace the entire section from end to end than have a connection there.
I guess I just don't like *unnecessary / avoidable* joints in cables. <shrug>
Cheers, T i m
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On 20/09/2018 15:05, Andy Burns wrote:

Agreed for adding a spur.

But putting pedantic hat on, this altering and extending a circuit so it needs approval etc.
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On 23/09/2018 18:33, Fredxx wrote:

No more approval than fitting a spur.
Although to do it correctly, even from a DIY view, a simple ohms test of the ring circuit BEFORE you start should be done.
--
Adam

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On 23/09/2018 18:33, Fredxx wrote:

Installing a complete new circuit might count as notifiable, but extending one outside of a "special location" does not.
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John.
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Fredxx wrote:

No, because it isn't adding a new circuit ...
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On 20/09/2018 14:43, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Absolutely no need to make it a ring if it means extending cables.
On a new build or rewire I would of course generally not use a spur apart from a socket in a loft.
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Adam

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On 20/09/18 14:43, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Is that right? Handy to know as I thought unfused spurs were a no-no.
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