I sincerely hope not. I've seen the future though. The last time a cop
stopped me he approached on the passenger side. When I reached across to
roll down the window he said 'I didn't know they made manual windows
I am getting like my father who viewed automatic transmissions, power
brakes, power steering, and car radios with extreme suspicion. He was
reconciled to heaters. (at the time a heater showed up as an extra cost
I became reconciled to air conditioning when I couldn't buy a car
without it. Same with ABS. I suppose the other crap will follow.
A few years back my insurance company was experimenting with them. They
paid me $400 to have one installed for 90 days. For the most part it
was no big deal but on one stretch of highway to and from work I avoided
triple digits though. I probably should have anyway just to blow their
No way would I have one all the time.
On 01/02/2018 02:20 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
The theory is they continually record speed and other data but write
over the data at some interval, say 2 minutes. After a triggering event,
like you just ran into a bridge abutment, it has a 2 minute snapshot of
what you were doing.
Is it just the UK where automatic has never become as popular as in the
States and Australia, or does the same apply to other European countries?
Automatics used to be thought of as much less fuel-efficient, and in Europe
fuel is more expensive so every little mpg matters.
I find automatics rather unpredictable, though I've never driven one long
enough to build up proper muscle-memory for controlling the speed and
regulating the instant when each gearchange occurs using the throttle. I'm
used to being able to use the clutch as well as the throttle to control
crawling speed, and to have absolute control over whether I accelerate with
light throttle and a lower gear or heavier throttle and a higher gear; when
approaching and negotiating a roundabout it is a lot smoother to be able to
stay in the same gear than to have to change down (and get an unexpected
surge of power). I also find it disconcerting to have a fluid connection
between engine and road speed, as cause by the torque converter.
I'd like to test-drive a VW DSG gearbox - the sort which has two manual
gearboxes, one for 1, 3 and 5, and the other for 2, 4 and 6, with
computer-controlled clutches which alter the engine speed to match the new
gear and coordinate the engaging of the "even" gearbox and the disengaging
of the "odd" gearbox to give a seamless gearchange.
Of course, eventually we will all be driving electric cars which are usually
single-gear because an electric motor can develop torque right from being
stationary up to some maximum speed.
Today's automatics are very efficient, more efficient than most drivers
shiftin on their own.
Evidently you've never driven a decently powered car with a good auto
gear box. It would be smooth, even throttle response, no unexpected
surge of power. When I was in Italy, one trip I had a Smart ForFour and
it resembled some of what you mentioned. Nothing at all like a larger
car is like.
Given the price of fuel, if I was on your side of the pond I'd probably
not be driving my car either.
It seems that Europeans are simply reluctant. Mostly, it seems to be
worries automatics aren't for real men or some stuff about not having
control, such as:-
And there is no better way of doing it than a torque converter. The DSG
you want to try still has a conventional clutch but, in essence, has a
very complicated way of simulating a simple centrifugal mechanism.
Stop overthinking. All you're doing is changing the amount of noise
There is no "unexpected surge of power". Power is related to how much
you push down on the pedal.
Then buy a car with a quieter engine or turn the radio up.
I've never driven a DSG but the idea seems flawed. It has the cachet
that it was developed for racing and is made by Germans... so it must be
It is notable that the market for DSGs has not taken root outside
Europe. The rest of the world still likes the smoothing effect of a
torque converter. I have heard a rumour that Ford are dropping DSG.
An ICE with clutch and gearbox can develop torque from stationary up to
some maximum speed... The Leaf motor produces flat torque only up to
about 27mph so at the wheels is little different to an ICE system -
other than for lack of noise and faff.
The problem is that people look at the engine in isolation, forgetting
that is just one component in a drivetrain of three significant parts
(engine, clutch, gearbox).
Manuals are far better on a hill descent where you can let the engine do
the braking. With an auto you either have to sit on the brakes or if it does
have an option to change down manually you still have to worry about over
heating the torque converter.
Not really , its an automated manual.
And what gear the car is in.
I suggest you try driving one then. Nothing changes gear faster.
Ford are a joke. They sold off JLR which Tata (hardly a high tech car maker)
managed to turn into a massive source of profit, yet those utter dolts in
Detroit decided it would be better to grab the cash and concentrate on the
pile of shite they sell as their core product.
Yes, but not maximum torque and thats the point. An ICE has to wind itself
up to its max torque peak and that takes a non zero amount of time. An electric
motor provides max torque the instant you hit the throttle.
And with an electric can you can bin the last 2 on that list, though there
is an argument for 2 or 3 gears for sports electrics or ones that need to tow
On 05/01/18 16:45, snipped-for-privacy@cylonHQ.com wrote:
I was talking about the clutch. You are talking about the gearbox. Yes,
DSG is a pair of automated manuals.
Not for the most part, other than when the revs are such that the engine
can't physically produce the power you're asking for. For a throttled
engine, power is proportional to airflow and the throttle controls
airflow. For constant throttle, volumetric efficiency changes with speed
For a diesel, the pedal controls injector duty cycle (power). Change
revs, the injectors operate at a different frequency but the duty cycle
remains the same.
If it did not work in that way, an automatic would lurch on every shift
unless the driver made a synchronised pedal movement.
Why should its fast shifts be better than the sufficiently fast shifts
of an epicyclic? When the main thing, whatever the transmission
technology, is to make decent decisions about when the shift occurs.
I don't see your connection. Are you trying to suggest that if they made
one bad decision another completely unrelated one must also be bad?
Of course it can. If you don't mind cooking the clutch you can get
maximum torque at zero speed. Stop looking at the engine in isolation
and consider the complete drive train.
A throttle is something else an electric motor doesn't have... (*)
I also bet that electric cars are configured so the motor doesn't
produce maximum torque at zero speed. Same problem as a clutch - it will
get hot. Also, it is zero efficiency so wastes electricity; and the
gearing is such that it would spin the wheels.
(*) A car, as far as the driver is concerned, has an accelerator pedal.
I don't understand why we have the historic term "throttle".
Furthermore, "full throttle" (for cars that have one) is when the foot
is completely *off* the accelerator.
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