Wing mirrors on cars

On 01/01/2018 04:38 AM, Bob Eager wrote:

I sincerely hope not. I've seen the future though. The last time a cop stopped me he approached on the passenger side. When I reached across to roll down the window he said 'I didn't know they made manual windows anymore,'
I am getting like my father who viewed automatic transmissions, power brakes, power steering, and car radios with extreme suspicion. He was reconciled to heaters. (at the time a heater showed up as an extra cost option).
I became reconciled to air conditioning when I couldn't buy a car without it. Same with ABS. I suppose the other crap will follow.
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It's the 'event data recoders' (EDRs) you gotta look out for. Too late! ABS is already an EDR-based technology! 8|
nb
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On 01/01/2018 02:11 PM, notbob wrote:

Supposedly the model/year I have doesn't have the tattletale. I'm sure as hell not going to install the gps/smartphone system that my insurance company tells me will reduce my premium.
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On 1/1/2018 8:51 PM, rbowman wrote:

A few years back my insurance company was experimenting with them. They paid me $400 to have one installed for 90 days. For the most part it was no big deal but on one stretch of highway to and from work I avoided triple digits though. I probably should have anyway just to blow their minds.
No way would I have one all the time.
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Is that going to log every single speeding offence everyone makes? That would be ridiculous.
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On 01/02/2018 02:20 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:

The theory is they continually record speed and other data but write over the data at some interval, say 2 minutes. After a triggering event, like you just ran into a bridge abutment, it has a 2 minute snapshot of what you were doing.
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Sounds like a device I'd disable as soon as I bought the car. I ain't having my own car spy on me!
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In the UK automatic transmission hasn't taken off. No idea why, it's brilliant, and it would probably reduce a lot of accidents. Why make the driver change ger when they should be controlling the car?
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Is it just the UK where automatic has never become as popular as in the States and Australia, or does the same apply to other European countries?
Automatics used to be thought of as much less fuel-efficient, and in Europe fuel is more expensive so every little mpg matters.
I find automatics rather unpredictable, though I've never driven one long enough to build up proper muscle-memory for controlling the speed and regulating the instant when each gearchange occurs using the throttle. I'm used to being able to use the clutch as well as the throttle to control crawling speed, and to have absolute control over whether I accelerate with light throttle and a lower gear or heavier throttle and a higher gear; when approaching and negotiating a roundabout it is a lot smoother to be able to stay in the same gear than to have to change down (and get an unexpected surge of power). I also find it disconcerting to have a fluid connection between engine and road speed, as cause by the torque converter.
I'd like to test-drive a VW DSG gearbox - the sort which has two manual gearboxes, one for 1, 3 and 5, and the other for 2, 4 and 6, with computer-controlled clutches which alter the engine speed to match the new gear and coordinate the engaging of the "even" gearbox and the disengaging of the "odd" gearbox to give a seamless gearchange.
Of course, eventually we will all be driving electric cars which are usually single-gear because an electric motor can develop torque right from being stationary up to some maximum speed.
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I doubt it. And most of us will be dead before that happens if it does, anyway.

But you wont care with a self driving car.
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Today's automatics will give better milage than all but the very best british drivers with a standard.

The new electronic transmissions are a LOT more predictable than the old hydraulics and shift so smoothly it's pretty much a non-issue anyway with 6 speed trans.

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[9 lines snipped]

The word british (properly spelled "British", since it is a proper noun) is not required. And IME, most Americans can't drive "stick" anyway.
[15 lines snipped]

I've had two cars with DSG and TBH it's not that different to a slushbox.

And indeed, an electric motor generates maximum torque when stalled, which is one of the reasons Teslas can accelerate so quickly.
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On 03/01/18 10:23, Huge wrote:

Oh dear.
When the blind lead the blind, they both shall drive into the ditch...
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This makes me unfit for the company of people of a Left persuasion, and
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Do you not believe what Huge wrote?
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On 1/2/2018 5:53 PM, NY wrote:

Today's automatics are very efficient, more efficient than most drivers shiftin on their own.

Evidently you've never driven a decently powered car with a good auto gear box. It would be smooth, even throttle response, no unexpected surge of power. When I was in Italy, one trip I had a Smart ForFour and it resembled some of what you mentioned. Nothing at all like a larger car is like.
Given the price of fuel, if I was on your side of the pond I'd probably not be driving my car either.

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The Smarty uses a "rubber band" CVT trans, doesn;t it? Like driving a blasted snowmobile

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That was a long long time ago.

What?! When driving an auto you simply don't care what gear it's in. You just press the pedal to go faster. The gear changes don't concern the driver one iota.

Why bother? When it needs to change, it will change, just let it do it's own job.

Far easier to just use the throttle or brake.

You want more power, press the pedal further down, it's very easy.

Never had a surge of power in an auto. Unless I requested it by slamming my foot down to get past someone.

I find that wonderful. When driving at town speeds, you can hardly tell a gear change has taken place. Why on earth wouldn't you like that?

Sounds like a lot of unnecessary rubbish to me. 4 gears with a torque convertor has always done me just fine.

For some reason some electric cars are designed with two gears.
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On 02/01/18 22:53, NY wrote:

It seems that Europeans are simply reluctant. Mostly, it seems to be worries automatics aren't for real men or some stuff about not having control, such as:-

And there is no better way of doing it than a torque converter. The DSG you want to try still has a conventional clutch but, in essence, has a very complicated way of simulating a simple centrifugal mechanism.

Stop overthinking. All you're doing is changing the amount of noise being produced.

There is no "unexpected surge of power". Power is related to how much you push down on the pedal.

Then buy a car with a quieter engine or turn the radio up.

I've never driven a DSG but the idea seems flawed. It has the cachet that it was developed for racing and is made by Germans... so it must be good.
It is notable that the market for DSGs has not taken root outside Europe. The rest of the world still likes the smoothing effect of a torque converter. I have heard a rumour that Ford are dropping DSG.

An ICE with clutch and gearbox can develop torque from stationary up to some maximum speed... The Leaf motor produces flat torque only up to about 27mph so at the wheels is little different to an ICE system - other than for lack of noise and faff.
The problem is that people look at the engine in isolation, forgetting that is just one component in a drivetrain of three significant parts (engine, clutch, gearbox).
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On Fri, 5 Jan 2018 13:52:37 +0000

Manuals are far better on a hill descent where you can let the engine do the braking. With an auto you either have to sit on the brakes or if it does have an option to change down manually you still have to worry about over heating the torque converter.

Not really , its an automated manual.

And what gear the car is in.

I suggest you try driving one then. Nothing changes gear faster.

Ford are a joke. They sold off JLR which Tata (hardly a high tech car maker) managed to turn into a massive source of profit, yet those utter dolts in Detroit decided it would be better to grab the cash and concentrate on the pile of shite they sell as their core product.

Yes, but not maximum torque and thats the point. An ICE has to wind itself up to its max torque peak and that takes a non zero amount of time. An electric motor provides max torque the instant you hit the throttle.

And with an electric can you can bin the last 2 on that list, though there is an argument for 2 or 3 gears for sports electrics or ones that need to tow heavy loads.
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On 05/01/18 16:45, snipped-for-privacy@cylonHQ.com wrote:

I was talking about the clutch. You are talking about the gearbox. Yes, DSG is a pair of automated manuals.

Not for the most part, other than when the revs are such that the engine can't physically produce the power you're asking for. For a throttled engine, power is proportional to airflow and the throttle controls airflow. For constant throttle, volumetric efficiency changes with speed change.
For a diesel, the pedal controls injector duty cycle (power). Change revs, the injectors operate at a different frequency but the duty cycle remains the same.
If it did not work in that way, an automatic would lurch on every shift unless the driver made a synchronised pedal movement.

Why should its fast shifts be better than the sufficiently fast shifts of an epicyclic? When the main thing, whatever the transmission technology, is to make decent decisions about when the shift occurs.

I don't see your connection. Are you trying to suggest that if they made one bad decision another completely unrelated one must also be bad?

Of course it can. If you don't mind cooking the clutch you can get maximum torque at zero speed. Stop looking at the engine in isolation and consider the complete drive train.

A throttle is something else an electric motor doesn't have... (*)
I also bet that electric cars are configured so the motor doesn't produce maximum torque at zero speed. Same problem as a clutch - it will get hot. Also, it is zero efficiency so wastes electricity; and the gearing is such that it would spin the wheels.
(*) A car, as far as the driver is concerned, has an accelerator pedal. I don't understand why we have the historic term "throttle". Furthermore, "full throttle" (for cars that have one) is when the foot is completely *off* the accelerator.

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