What are some car-repair jobs you always wished you could do but have never done?

[RS Wood]

Remember, we covered this in detail DECADES ago.

Everyone confuses *runout* with *warp*.

They're not the same thing.

One requires *permanent bending* of the rotor.

You have to do that without snapping the lug bolts.

Two logical questions HAVE to be considered:

1. How much torque *can* you apply?
2. How much torque does it take to *bend* a rotor?

Without logic - it's just politics or religion.

There is a huge difference between runout and warp.

Are you talking warp? Or runout?

I'm only talking pure logic here. Not religion.

[RS Wood]

I have seen what amounts to black sand in the outside sleeve of the crazy BMW dipstick tube which doubles as part of the PCV system but where the clearance is too small (so people drill holes in it to solve that).

I had to dig out the "black sand" which was pure carbon it seemed but rock hard and packed in there.

[Frank]

Around here, it's the rust that thins the rotors. The braking surfaces don't rust significantly, but the rust just flakes out of the vent holes.

Replacing rotors every other brake job is about right in the rustbelt.

[rbowman]

I don't know how well the retrofits held up. Long life and race engines don't go together.

[Frank]

Does eyeballing it count? I bought a used car in which I could see about

1/16" of warp as I rotated the rotor and looked through the top of the caliper. It was one of those cars with the rotor captured behind the hub and the shop price for the repair probably contributed to the previous owners desire to get rid of the car.

[Xeno]

Rolls Royce Merlin and Kestrel engines.

Not a chain in sight. ;-)

I had an ashtray made out of the piston of one.

The long head studs made very good pry bars.

The alloy those engines were made from was nothing like the crap alloy you get now.

[Xeno]

You did, I didn't. Wasn't here decades ago.

I am well aware of that.

That too - and I've seen it, experienced it. YMMV since you haven't been actively involved in the trade.

Quite a lot you will find. Wheel nuts are torqued way below their maximum capacity but, unfortunately, there are quite a few rock apes out there in the trade who have no idea of their strength or how to use a torque wrench.

That depends on the rotor and the hub it is attached to.

Warp! Defintely warp. Once the wheel nuts were loosened and correctly tightened, most warp disappeared but sufficient remained to cause a slight steering shimmy. And, yes, steering shimmy is the effect you get from warped discs.

I'd have said your *logic* comes entirely from book learning and not from the real world of the trade I spent 50 years involved in.

[Xeno]

I used to replace Land Rover brake drums every second set of brake shoes. Might add, in that hostile environment, brake shoes lasted a maximum of 4 weeks on a good run.

[Xeno]

That's when you get cars cheap - but only if you can fix the issue yourself. ;-)

[RS Wood]

Everyone here is talking about runout which is *different* than warp.

I owned Chrysler & Dodge, as you know.

As you may know, the lug bolts, in those days, were reverse threaded on one side of the car.

I snapped a few before I realized it (I was just a kid at the time).

The amount of torque you need to *bend* a rotor would snap a lug bolt well before you ever got close to permanently bending a rotor.

Doesn't anyone here think logically?

[RS Wood]

Doesn't anyone here know the difference between runout and warp?

[RS Wood]

The issue with logic is that it's unassailable.

So that means that you are willing to have worse handling for the 99% of the time that you drive so that you can have better handling (which only happens in *deep* snow) 1% of the time.

That's fine. I just wanted you to think logically.

Someone should clue you in to the fact that an anecdote does not make science.

I had a friend of my mom's who was talking to her brother and he was then worried about his girlfriend who drove a red car and then he had an accident because he saw a red car in front of him.

I just proved that red cars cause accidents as much as you proved the same with RWD in the snow.

Your anecdotal "bro" science is for idiots, politicians, and priests. The rest of us use logic. And facts. And statistics.

You're talking about driving in deep snow for heaven's sake.

Do you really think your FWD handling is *great* in deep snow? Why not just put chains on RWD for those days you're in deep snow?

Then you could have good handling 99% of the year and sufficient deep snow traction when you need it 1% of the year.

Doesn't *anyone* on this newsgroup think logically?

Anyone who buys FWD for handling has already proven they can't think logically.

I completely understand everything you say because you can't say anything that everyone else who falls for the marketing bullshit doesn't say because it's *exactly* what the marketing bullshit *told* you to say.

Don't feel too bad. Most people fall for the marketing bullshit.

They, like you, can't think logically. Just don't blame me for telling you the truth.

[Frank]

No doubt. I had a friend who worked at a transmission shop and also rebuilt transmissions in his garage. We'd hang out, talk car repair and he said he had to redo his first few rebuilds. Biggest problem was the effort to pull and replace the trans.

Odd thing was, he hated working on carburetors.

I expect I'd just install a good junkyard trans and rebuild the original. I have no expectation I'd get it right the first time.

[Frank]

With FWD I have good handling 100% of the year. Rear wheel drive handling is OK 99% of the year.

What logic says that 99% is better than 100%?

What logic says that continually installing and removing tire chains to get that 99% to 100% is better than being happy with the 100% without chains?

[Frank]

OK, please tell me. The rotor ran true for about 270 degrees of rotation. Then it dipped inside about 1/16" of an inch. Never saw anything like it before or since.

Warp or runout?

I say warp, but I see NO practical difference. Should warped discs be machined differently than discs with runout?

Should discs with excessive warp be tossed in a different bin than discs with excessive runout?

So, also please tell me the PRACTICAL difference between warp and runout.

Those of us who don't think logically need to know.

[Vic Smith]

The only handling that concerns me is snow and rain handling. The winter of 1978-1979 the Chicago area had 90" of snow. I had about a 20 mile trip to work, and I never missed a day. Except when I showed up one day and nobody was there. Drove back home, passing hundreds of cars stuck in the snow. I was driving a RWD '67 Buick Skylark. With 300 lbs of sand bags in the trunk. That's a cheap method. Since 1991 I've driven FWD cars. Never had to load the trunk with anything. As long as a car handles as expected, it's a non-issue. Aside from snow, ice and rain, handling only matters to car racers and car racer wannabes. I'm neither, so your "handling" logic is immaterial to me.

[Xeno]

I never owned either of those two companies. I guess I was too poor. What's it like to be a rich engineer company owner?

Yes, I did know that. Never snapped one off either - even as a kid.

Never snapped one off either - even as a kid.

Missed the imprinted *L* on the end of the stud, did you?

These vans;

Had an integral front hub and drum. It was easily possible to warp the drum purely by overtightening the wheel nuts. Why was that? Was the casting designed by an engineer who was thinking logically that a bolt would snap before the drum warped. Hey, he stuffed up big time.

It's looking a lot like you don't.

[My 2 Cents]

South Main Auto Repair is one of my favorite auto repair youtube sites. Eric explains things very well and entertains while fixing the cars.

.. I'll be 70 next year and working on vehicles is getting a lot tougher fast, declining mobility and eyesight and forget listening for those vacuum leaks. When I started working on cars PVC valves, alternators and transistor radios in cars were new technology. It's interesting keeping up with today's technology and I hope to ride in a self driving car soon.

[rbowman]

I don't know why you have a bug up your ass about FWD. I wasn't going to reply but your utter illogical bias is starting to piss me off. End of discussion.

[Ed Pawlowski]

I learned a long time ago being late in snow is much better than worrying about it or having complications. I used to start work at 7. When it snowed, I'd go out at about 7 to clear the driveway and get ready to go. My commute was 24 miles and a couple of steep hills.

I'm responsible for my car and myself and that comes far ahead of showing up on time. This year will be different though, I'm retired and plan to just go back to bed if it snows.