On Wednesday, July 15, 2015 at 9:08:55 AM UTC-4, micky wrote:
has a re> >>>> >movable battery, remove it first. Batteries in cell phones and othe
r electr> >>>> >onics have thermal fuses or polyfuses that could brick a battery if
it gets> >>>> > too hot. Turning on a hot smart phone can damage the CPU which is
a proble> >>>> >m that GM is addressing with its design for an AC cooled compartmen
t for ph> >>>> >ones that will be built into the dash of new GM vehicles. 8-)
I don't recall) specifically say that the A/C can be used year round to re
move moisture from the vehicle to keep the windows clear.
hen the Defroster setting is selected.
Are you sure that you are actually turning it off? My Honda manuals state t
hat if the A/C was not on prior to turning on the defroster, the A/C will c
ome on but the A/C indicator will *not* illuminate.
"Select Defrost. The system automatically switches to fresh air mode and tu
rns on the A/C. The indicator in the A/C button will not come on (LX model)
, or the A/C ON indicator will not come on (EX, EX-L and Touring models), i
f the A/C was off to start with."
So, even though you say there is a separate A/C button in your vehicles (BT
W I don't know of any vehicles where there *isn't* a separate A/C control)
how do you know that you are actually turning it off? In my Hondas, the sy
stem apparently overrides the A/C button.
I'm not sure what either of those comments have to do with the A/C being on
or off when the Defroster is running. The Defroster mode is going to send
"almost all the air onto the windshield" by virtue of the positioning of th
e air flow control doors, regardless of whether the A/C is on or not.
Now, that would be your test: Simulate the exact conditions under which you
get a specific amount of frost on your windshield. Then use the defroster
in what you believe to be 2 different modes: A/C on and A/C off. Let us kno
w what happens. We'll wait.
On Wednesday, July 15, 2015 at 10:24:59 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
te that if the A/C was not on prior to turning on the defroster, the A/C wi
ll come on but the A/C indicator will *not* illuminate.
d turns on the A/C. The indicator in the A/C button will not come on (LX mo
del), or the A/C ON indicator will not come on (EX, EX-L and Touring models
), if the A/C was off to start with."
(BTW I don't know of any vehicles where there *isn't* a separate A/C contr
ol) how do you know that you are actually turning it off? In my Hondas, th
e system apparently overrides the A/C button.
Apparently micky thinks it's a bad idea, money wise.
When I said "There is nothing wrong with using the A/C in the winter" he sa
id "It costs money".
Perhaps he subscribes to that infamous economic practice of "saving money r
egardless of the costs". ;-)
On Wed, 15 Jul 2015 07:17:01 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
I don't think either of my car manuals said anything like that. The
Lebaron manual is around here somewhere, but the car itself is in a
beautiful graveyard in the Smoky Mountains, overlooking the Piedmont and
the rising sun. So I can't check it, but I can check the Toyota.
I'm 99.9% sure my AC indicator DOES come on when I push the Defrost
button, and then it goes out when I push the AC button.
Another test woudl be whethe the air is warmer after the AC light goes
off, but that can be hard to tell. Just yesterday, I noticed that even
though it was a warm day, the air from the vents seemed cooler than I
expected, even though neither the Defrost or the AC was on.
If you read, _Hondas and Satanic Rituals_, by James Mephiisto you'll
see that the Honda is the most deceitful of all car makes. This is not
the first time its indicators have failed to tailed to tell the truth.
OTOH, in _Toyota and the Angels_ Maryann Faithful writes at length
about how Toyotas will leave their parking places at night to deliver
food for poor people.
It has to do with the defrost running. Whether I'm right ot not, I'd
already said that the AC was off.
And that's most of what makes it Defrost mode.
You know I can't do that, because it takes a night of sitting there to
have frost or even fog on the windshield. There's no reason to
expect the next morning's supply of those things will be the same.
Anyhow, I admit it would take longer. I don't care exactly how much
longer. But you can test and get back to us.
Of course not, but there is no cost. Not only that, there is no
benefit to have it on once the windshiled is clear, but I've been known
to drive for hours in defrost mode. Turning off the AC makes sure the
AC is off.
On Wednesday, July 15, 2015 at 2:58:18 PM UTC-4, micky wrote:
it has a re> >> >>>> >movable battery, remove it first. Batteries in cell phones and o
ther electr> >> >>>> >onics have thermal fuses or polyfuses that could brick a battery
if it gets> >> >>>> > too hot. Turning on a hot smart phone can damage the CPU which
is a proble> >> >>>> >m that GM is addressing with its design for an AC cooled compart
ment for ph> >> >>>> >ones that will be built into the dash of new GM vehicles. 8-)
oo, I don't recall) specifically say that the A/C can be used year round to
remove moisture from the vehicle to keep the windows clear.
n when the Defroster setting is selected.
e defroster, the A/C will come on but the A/C indicator will *not* illumina
turns on the A/C. The indicator in the A/C button will not come on (LX mod
el), or the A/C ON indicator will not come on (EX, EX-L and Touring models)
, if the A/C was off to start with."
(BTW I don't know of any vehicles where there *isn't* a separate A/C contro
l) how do you know that you are actually turning it off? In my Hondas, the
system apparently overrides the A/C button.
Honda Corp is our friend and benefactor.
"How Snapdragon and Honda are working to save lives with smartphones"
My neighbor just bought a 2015 Toyota Camry. The big black grill opening on
that thing is enough to scare small children and the elderly. As a matter
of fact, I've noticed a decline in the amount of wildlife in my neighborhoo
d since he brought it home. I think Toyota may have gone over to the dark s
ide since Ms. Faithful penned her praises.
on or off when the Defroster is running.
True, but regardless of the A/C being on or off, I still don't see how your
comment "Sending almost all the air onto the windshiled (sic) stays the sa
me" relates to this issue. Turning the A/C on or off, either manually or au
tomagically, isn't going to change where the air flows as long as the defro
ster is on.
The same holds for "and iirc the fan speed is within my control." So what?
Why is that relevant to this discussion?
ield" by virtue of the positioning of the air flow control doors, regardle
ss of whether the A/C is on or not.
Uh...yeah. That still doesn't explain how your comments related to air flow
and fan control have anything to do with the A/C being on or off in Defros
you get a specific amount of frost on your windshield. Then use the defrost
er in what you believe to be 2 different modes: A/C on and A/C off. Let us
know what happens. We'll wait.
Oh course I do. I'll try to warn you the next time I am being facetious.
No I can't, for the reasons I stated earlier. Unless my manual is lying to
me, I cannot turn off my A/C when the defroster is on. It is you who has th
e believe that you can control the A/C when the defroster is on, therefore
you are the only one that can test it. I'm not saying you are wrong in your
believe, only in your assertion that it is something *I* can test.
y r> >egardless of the costs". ;-)
First, based on the use of the smiley, I'm sure you realize that I was joki
ng. However, there is a cost. Unless you do not drive until the windows are
perfectly clear and you pull over if they fog up while driving, then there
is the "cost" of safety. Sure, if you never have an accident, then there i
s no real cost, but there is the potential.
So your windows have never fogged up after they have initially cleared? Per
haps that is because the A/C was actually on for all those hours while you
were in defrost mode.
On Wednesday, July 15, 2015 at 4:08:13 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I guess if you just leave it on defrost, even if the AC is not on,
it probably wouldn't fog up again as long as enough hot air is blowing on it.
But most people want to switch to heat mode, maintain a comfortable
temp and then in my experience it will fog up again many times, like
you say. In fact, "defrost" is really only part of the problem.
In my driving, it's far more common for the windshield to just fog up
while driving. It only needs to really be defrosted if it's been
parked outside in freezing temps.
The implementation of whether you can disable AC while in defrost
will probably vary among cars. But I would think most do force AC
on, because they know most people don't understand the concept,
would turn off the AC, so it's better to just force it on. If it's
below freezing I think they disable the AC at that point anyway.
Maybe where you live, not here in New England. They can fog numerous
times in the right weather and of you change altitude on the hills. I
can go from sun to rain to snow to fog to sun all in five miles.
On Wednesday, July 15, 2015 at 10:51:51 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
But do you continue to drive constantly with the defrost on and no AC?
It might not fog up again with just the heavy air stream blowing
on it. And as has been discussed, probably with most cars today
it's not possible to drive with defrost and no AC.
The real situation here is that IDK anyone who would want to drive
with the defrost constantly on. It tends to be louder, doesn't
blow air where you want it, etc. Typically, if the windshield is
just fogged up and not actually frozen, all you need is AC to clear
it up quickly. You don't even need to put it into defrost mode.
And then, if you take the AC off, I agree, in conditions where you
need it, the windshield will quickly fog up again. Sometimes it's
so gradual your vision is already substantially reduced before
you even notice it.
Removing the AC clutch fuse, disconnecting the compressor, or
removing the belt "makes sure the AC is off".
Driving with the HVAC system on defrost mode ensures the AC compressor
will at least cycle on and off - or run constantly, depending on the
type of AC control implemented
On Wed, 15 Jul 2015 07:17:01 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
On "climate control" equipped cars like my wife's 2002 Taurus you just
set the temperature and the car's computer decides whether you need
heat or cooling and controls the compressor accordingly - turning the
AC on when defrost is sellected regardless of temperature. It is
impossible to turn off the AC from the control panel without turning
off the climate control completely (if even that is possible - don't
think it is)
On my 1996 Ranger I have total control of the AC - but that is because
I installed it myself - bodged together from an assortment of new and
used parts with the express duty of cooling the cab when I tell it to.
No recirc, and no "smart controls" - just a pushbutton switch on the
On Wed, 15 Jul 2015 16:14:55 -0400, email@example.com wrote:
Wow. I've been complaining about the Toyota, which turns things on
automatically but at least it lets me turn them off. Each time, of
Yeah, I hate smart controls. My friend Paul warned me, but when the
rest of the used car is top of the line, you get stuck with climate
So I think it depends on whether it's summer or winter, or on some other
setting, but half the time, it starts up with recirculate on. I never
want recirc on unless it's over 96 out. (It's a convertible so I
don't use the AC until it's over 95.)
And it keeps turning the AC on when I put the defrost on -- oh yeah,
that's where we all came in.
I think there's a third thing.
Well there's a question at least.
SAy I set the AC for 70. What happens when the car gets to 70. I
think in another post you say the compressor might stay running, but
does that mean it just moves the hot/cold door so it's mixing hot air
with cold air, to keep it at 70. Surely that's a waste of fuel.
And you said on other cars the compressor cluth disengages. That
sounds good, but the makers dobn't advertise who does what.
On Wednesday, July 15, 2015 at 6:47:08 PM UTC-4, micky wrote:
...a lot snipped...
On this we agree. I have 4 vehicles. The Odyssey (my daily driver) is the o
nly one with a fully automatic climate control system. I love everything el
se about the vehicle expect for that. I long for the days of 3 dials and 1
button: Temp control dial, fan speed dial, mode dial, A/C button. OK, maybe
a Max A/C button too. That's all we really need. There are far too many va
riables involved to expect a vehicle to maintain a given temperature automa
tically. There is no such thing as "set it and forget it" and least not in
On Wed, 15 Jul 2015 17:05:24 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
Exactly. If iit was set it and forget it, it woudl probably be worth
thee inconveniences, and maybe they wouldn't even be inconvenient,
because I'd forgotten it. But cars are not like houses.
I stil fiddle with it a lot and I'm not even sure what effect the
Yet they've been pushing this as luxury for what, 30, 40 years?
The climate control on my wife's 02 Taurus is a lot closer to "set it
and forget it" than the HVAC system at the office!!!!
If you tinker with the controls on the Taurus you have to keep
tinkering because you overshoot. Just set it to 18C and leave it, and
the car is always comfortable except when you start up untoll it gets
up or down to temp. Setting it to 16 doesn't cool it any faster, and
setting it to 25C doesn't heat it up any faster. Can't get my wife
convinced though, so all od a sudden it's either too hot or too cold
because she's played with the settings again!!!!
Stop fiddling - you are just like my wife. Set it and forget it.
And do you know what "max AC does? It just puts the system in
recirculate mode to cool quicker (and dry your sweat quicker)
On 7/15/2015 10:20 PM, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
OMG, I've wasted hours of my life trying to explain that to people.
Same with the thermostat at work. It is just an automated switch.
I finally convinced one person by having them turn a light on. Want it
brighter? Push the switch really hard.
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