Ticks working in the back yard clearing brush

I agree with you that ticks almost never are on for more than a dozen hours, although I had one on me on the back of my leg for three days that I didn't know about.

Other than that one (which I got hiking in Japan, of all places), I think most have been found when they started hurting, which is what happens when they start to swell up.

My only point on this statement above is that they "guess" they are infected with Lyme disease simply because it's fashionable to say that.

Just as I suspect far too many people actually have Lyme disease who don't know that's what is causing their pains, probably ten times that number assume they have Lyme disease when they don't.

Without a confirmation diagnosis of the chronic disease, they're all just guessing.

I gave up on Deet on my skin and Pyrethrins on my clothes because they tend to smell like cat piss. I'm sure it works. But it stinks.

I've had so many ticks that I can't count them. Maybe a hundred. Plus or minus about a score.

One was on the underside of my nipple. That made my one breast hurt like I was lactating (and I'm a guy!). Took me till the next morning to find that one, as it didn't hurt until my nipple area swelled up but it was hiding

I don't minimize it, and, in fact, I wake up in pain every day, mostly my feet and elbows. I can barely put on my socks.

However, I'm not one to claim the latest fashionable disease just because it's the current fad.

It's my understanding there is no positive diagnostic test for chronic lyme disease. Is that understanding correct?

Problem is not everyone gets the bulls eye rash. Or they may have a rash and not notice it. The rash is not necessarily at the site of the bite either.

Foolish dismissal and attitude towards a potentially deadly disease. For starters, where do you live? If you're in an area where Lyme does not exist, or has a very low incidence, you can't compare your experience with that of people living in CT, NJ, etc, where it is very common.

Same here in central NJ. I've personally had it twice. The first time was before the disease was even known t0 exist. I was just 18 and had a severe neck pain that I had never had before. Next day, I had Bell's Palsy on one side of my face. And I had the classic bulls eye rash on my leg. The doctor looked at it, said, looks like some kind of insect bite, and that was it. No treatment because then they didn't know what it was. Susequently I developed an abnormal hear rhythm. And I went from having an enormous amount of energy, to being tired most of the time, having to take naps, etc.

It was only years later, after Lyme had been discovered, that I got bit by a tick a second time, wound up with several of the bulls eye rashes and a painful elbow, that I figured out that I had Lyme and that was from what I had heard of it in the news. That time I got treated quickly and only a few days later did I finally make the connection that I actually had Lyme already, long before.

It's a really, really bad disease and to minimize it, to imply that people suffering from it are mostly making it up, is wrong.

The fact that 300,000 people a year are diagnosed with Lyme and the CDC says that number is low because they believe there are many that are not diagnosed, shows that obviously a lot of people are getting infected. This is not a rare disease and however long a tick has to stay on, clearly they are staying on long enough to infect a lot of people.

And how exactly do you know this? You're not even living in a high endemic area. I'm sure Peter will tell you that most of those people are not "guessing", they have been diagnosed.

Any other stupid numbers you want to pull out of your rear?

Take your choice, the smell of the spray or increased chance of contracting a debilitating and potentially deadly disease.

So, why are you here? Just keep doing what you're doing.

I see, so now you have Lyme? WTF?

And your evidence that a lot of people are doing this is?

Why don't you tell us, you seem to know so much......

I probably know ticks better than you do.

Partly, that's because I lived for two summers in Kilmer Woods during graduate school. Never did a day go by that I didn't have ticks crawling all over me.

The mosquitoes were worse though, but that's an aside.

I've been "bitten" by ticks more than anyone I've ever met. Probably more than you (more times than I can ever count).

And I have plenty of aches and pains in my joints.

But I can't definitively say that I ever got Lyme Disease since this was before Lyme Disease was named, and, worse, it's chronic by now if I ever did have it, hence it's undiagnosable.

I am only stating fact. You're stating guesses.

that's the difference betwixt us.

You do know the chronic diagnosis is bogus, right?

I never once said nor implied the disease doesn't exist. I just said that the diagnosis of the chronic disease is problematic.

Hence, your numbers, if they're for the chronic disease, are scientifically untenable (aka bogus).

The acute phase is easier to diagnose.

The way I know it is that it's a scientific fact that the chronic disease is essentially undiagnosable, using current methods that the doctors use.

I'm sure if you spend a million bucks on each person, you can probably diagnose the cause of their chronic ills down to the causative agent, but the current state of medicine is such that all your numbers, if for the chronic phase, have to be bogus since they're scientifically untenable.

The real number of chronically infected Americans can be 300,000 like you say, or, it could just as well be ten million for all you know, or even as low as something absurd, like 1,000 for all you can scientifically justify.

Remember that I'm not saying the disease doesn't exist. I'm saying that the test for the chronic disease doesn't exist. Therefore, anyone who says they have chronic Lyme disease is just guessing.

BTW: Do you capitalize both the Lyme and the Disease?

Just because your numbers are scientifically untanable, doesn't make my statements stupid. I stand by the fact that a diagnostic test for chronic lyme disease does not exist.

So, your numbers are scientifically untenable.

You can call me "stupid" for stating the obvious to you - but it only points out all the more that you can't argue the fundamental point - which is that all your numbers, if for the chronic phase, are bogus.

I stand by my statement that anyone who "says" they have chronic lyme disease, but who has no diagnostic proof (which they can't have anyway), is just guessing.

Nothing wrong with just guessing, as long as people realize that they're just guessing. The danger comes in when they actually think they have the disease, where, in reality, they say they have it just because it's fashionable to say they have it.

No, I don't know that and neither do you. You came in here freely admitting you have no experience with the disease and yet now you're the expert. That makes you the village idiot.

You just denied that chronic Lyme does not exist. You've done everything you can to point the finger at people suffering from the disease, accusing them of mostly being fakes.

Idiot,.

I see, so now the CDC doesn't know what they are doing, we should instead listen to you.

You came here freely admitting no experience with the disease. Several of us here have had it, have suffered from it, have loved ones who have been diagnosed with it. It's offensive to have some f****it like you start telling us about the disease.

With no experience with the disease, how do you know what doctors do or don't do?

See, this is what makes you a f****it. I did not say 300K Americans are chronically infected. I cited the CDC saying that there are 300K NEW CASES OF LYME A YEAR. You're clueless and even when given the data, can't comprehend what's before you.

There is no "definitive test" for Alzheimers either. Why don't you start in with all those patients, their families, their loved ones? Does that make it any less real?

They are not "my numbers". They are the numbers from the CDC. Again, you really are a f****it.

You can call me "stupid" for stating the obvious to you - but it only

Again, they are not "my numbers". They are from CDC and they are not for chronic patients, they are new cases each year. You really are an embarrassment.

Tell it to Alzheimer's and all the other people suffering from diseases and conditions for which there is no absolute, definitive test.

Now, get lost!

Yeah, you know them so well, you came here asking what kind of tick it is that bit you. So well, that you have a dismissive attitude towards Lyme and the life threatening dangers it presents.

Then you're a moron.

So what? Because you didn't personally contract Lyme or one of the other tick borne illnesses, means they are rare? Again, per CDC there are 300K new Lyme cases a year in the USA.

Not true. Many diseases are diagnosed every day where there is no definitive test. Alzheimer's for example.

No, you're an offensive f****it and village idiot. And I've had Lyme, have experience going back decades.

He's actually pretty typical.

He doesn't even realize what he writes tells us that he's pretty typical.

It seems, from what he writes, that facts don't bother him since he trusts his intuition far more than he trusts facts to the contrary.

And, it really doesn't matter what you write because his intuition is that if you disagree with him, "then you're a moron".

I suspect his percentages are very high in the I and J category of the Myers-Brigg's personality profile test:

That's fine since no personality type is better than any other. The problem arises when people don't realize what they are.

For example, my I and J are almost at 0 percent. So I react completely differently to the same words that trader_4 reacts to.

He seems to believe his intuition more than he believes any facts that are contrary to his intuition, whereas I have intuition, but I don't trust my intuition. For my personality type, facts trump my intuition.

For his personality type, his intuition trumps the facts.

That's fine, by the way, as no personality is better than any other, and, in fact, a discussion group with a mix of personalities will flesh out all ideas.

The crime is when people don't understand why they think the way they think (for example, trader doesn't seem to understand why he contorts everything I said, which is kind of funny, since all I ever said were tenable facts).

His actions are like how this immunology video contorts the facts to "prove" that a God made our immunological system "intelligent":

Based on what you write, you are a highly intuitive and highly judgemental person.

I wonder what your percentages for I and J are in a Myers-Briggs test?

Mine are very close to 0% for both.

The man is highly judgemental and highly intuitive, is my educated guess.

If that guess is correct, that means most likely: a. He trusts his intuition far more than he trusts facts to the contrary, b. He strongly expects others not only to think the same way he does, but he expects others to act the same way he acts.

Everyone has these traits, so it's the PERCENTAGE STRENGTH of these traits which, I predict, are extremely high for this person.

That's fine (no traits are good or bad, they just are). However, he should, at the very least, REALIZE he is (most likely) and extremely highly intuitive and extremely highly judgemental person.

Whatever people are, is fine. The crime, I feel, is when people don't realize what they are.

That's what this test is for:

PS: It's not the best test as the professional ones are better, so realize what that test is. It's free. It's fast. It's easy. But it's not perfect. Also realize what the conclusions are. They're scientifically valid, but they're not perfect either (and many who are highly intuitive highly judgemental will discount the results out of hand since facts and other people's ideas are counter intuitive to them).

Think about what you wrote. If you actually believe what you wrote, all you are saying is that you completely misinterpreted everything that I said.

I'm fine with you believing a completely different scenario than what was stated, as long as you understand that you're just making this stuff up.

I do it too, for example when I watch a science fiction movie, my mind falls into a lull, like yours seems to be permanently in, where the make-believe world seems real.

But I snap out of it the moment the movie is over.

If your words can be taken as indicative of your thought processes, you don't seem to realize that you live in a make-believe world of your own creation.

That fine - as long as you realize that you are an extremely intuitive person, almost assuredly, where you trust your own intuition far more than you trust the facts to the contrary.

In addition, since you jump to the strangest conclusions of what other people actually said, you are almost certainly highly judgemental (in the Myers-Briggs sense) in that you feel everyone thinks the way you do, and worse, you seem to feel that everyone should act the way you act.

May I suggest you take the Myers-Briggs personality profile test, and that you pay strict attention to the percentages for the Intuitive and Judgemental portions of the results?

Oren posted for all of us...

That spelling would be tics-like facial tics, finger tics, brain tics.

Oren posted for all of us...

Maybe he should use his sidearm... The projectile would sterilize the bite and surrounding meat.

Do not feed the troll.

Tekkie® laid this down on his screen :

What's the correct spelling for lunar ticks?