Questions about mounting & balancing new LT tires on new steel rims at home (match mounting marks, red dots, yellow dots, & spacers)

[Arlen Holder]

Hi Xeno, (who responded to Clare & who responded to Ed Pawlowski's concerns)

I'm glad people commented on the safety procedures as repairing stuff at home requires us to be safety conscious, just as working on the roof, as I did this morning to set up a neighbor's WISP Wi-Fi requires a safety culture at all times.

Rather funnily, since Apple users are so big on feeling safe, I often have to tell them that men sometimes have to use chainsaws to chop down trees rather than butterknives, where the point is that a little bit of danger is to be expected when mounting and balancing tires - but we still take all the expected normal sane precautions.

However, I could always use more safety hints, where, to mount these four tires, we used four Harbor Freight six ton jack stands (adjustable up to 15 inches as I recall), where this is the first actual _frame_ vehicle I've seen in quite a long time (it was an old Chevy pickup from the very early

90s).

We chocked the rear tires, set the parking brake, and set the transmission in Park; then we jacked up the front using a frame member; and then we jacked up the rear from the differential.

We set the six-ton jack stands on the frame in the front, but on the axle in the rear.

For redundancy, we left the floor jack under the differential.

And, since this is California, we "played earthquake" by shaking the truck vigorously _before_ we did any work on it after setting it on the stands.

You'll note the use of a torque wrench, where I had them use _both_ the bar-bending kind, and the click-sound kind, so that they'd get used to both of them (the kids said they just normally do it by feel).

I had them look up the lug nut torque, where I was surprised that the owners manual called for 93 foot pounds.

In summary, I'm _happy_ for people to suggest safety procedures, as, well, as we all know, we were only invincible when we were in our twenties! :)

[Arlen Holder]

I agree and repeat it was completely uncalled for me to snap like I did.

Luckily I pulled back a similar snippy response to Clare when he posted: "It's Arlen. He'll screw around with it. No doubt." but I accidentally left the snippy one to you in my out queue, for which I apologize, as I wrote both snippy responses at the same time.

Mea culpa. It was uncalled for on my part. I publicly apologize again. o To my credit, I ignored Clare's wholly uncalled-for original response.

This is my key point too! o Facts are the only things I care about when choosing tires.

The huge problem with commodities such as tires, is the utter ignorance we all have on the specifications of every tire we might consider buying.

We just don't have good facts _other_ than what's printed on the vehicle. o And what's printed on the sidewall of the tires.

I agree that a new tire doesn't have the same "specifications" as a tire which has been used for a couple of years, where the whole point of meeting or _exceeding_ specifications is, IMHO, to take that degradation factor into account.

This affects _all_ tires though.

And yes, I've seen Hancook's "budget" oriented marketing of the Laufenn tire line, but I personally suspect they use the exact same materials.

That "assumption" is not based on facts though; so it "could" be they use lesser materials - but - what I care about aren't the materials but the spec.

Unfortunately, the only facts we have are the specs.

Nope. And I suspect nobody has that information for all tires they are considering purchasing.

NOBODY but the manufacturer has those facts. o The only facts we have are the spec.

We have the Consumer Reports tests, but, as is often the case with Consumer Reports, they tested every Laufenn model _except_ the one the kid bought!

Even so, you'd have the same problem for all tires, since, as you noted, standardized testing has its own set of flaws.

But it's a lot better than absolutely nothing.

Yes.

Given there are only 4 models in the Laufenn line, when I saw CR tested four tires, I figured it was all four models, but they did different sizes of one model twice. Sigh.

I have a love/hate relationship with CR because I like that they test stuff in real-world tests (like tread life); but it kills me when they don't test the specific model I'm considering buying.

Yup. But again, we don't have that fact on _any_ tire.

On this, we can look at the "boy racer" reviews, but, I didn't even look at the reviews because I've read hundreds, where I think out of hundreds, I've only seen one or two that I thought were worth the effort of reading.

I told the kid to buy by the specs, and that's what he did.

(To be clear, I did suggest this tire for him, since it was the best value that met or exceeded his door jamb specifications.)

I agree with you that after, oh, about 10,000 miles, the kid will know a lot more about those tires on that particular pickup truck used the way he uses it.

I think we'd have had the _same_ problem with all tires we would be considering, where all we have, by way of facts, are the specs.

I wish we had more than just the specs that we have; but we just don't.

[Ed Pawlowski]

I do read some but as I said, you really have to be careful. If you sold 2 pound pure gold bars for #100 there would still be some complaints.

I can see it now "it is supposed to be brand new but the bottom had a scratch"

[Clare Snyder]

Then there are the guys who wouldn't know a good tire from a flat one

-and write reviews.

[Clare Snyder]

I'd be more likely to go to the wreckers and buy a decent set of used first line brand name tires.

[Arlen Holder]

Below is factual information available to consumers for choosing tires from Consumers Union, owner of Consumer Reports (which I have a subscription to).

While choosing tires by facts, IMHO, is both trivial and impossible, it's interesting to see what "reliable" media report (as opposed to Marketing shills and "boy racer" online tire reviews).

Unfortunately, as is frustratingly often the case, Consumer Reports tested every Laufenn model _except_ the one we bought by the specs, so I'll simply have to report on the nearest presumed equivalent for the details below (since not everyone reading this has a Consumer Reports account like I do):

o Consumer Reports: Laufenn X Fit HT, overall score 68 (range 56 to 74)

o Dry braking = Very Good o Wet braking = Fair o Handling = Good o Hydroplaning = Very Good o Snow traction = Good o Ice braking = Very Good o Ride comfort = Very Good o Noise = Very Good o Rolling resistance = Very Good o CR Price = $120

Highs o Strong dry braking grip among all season truck tires. Lows o Fair wet stopping performance is typical of many peer models.

CR's Take From dry braking to resisting hydroplaning, and braking on ice to ride comfort, this Laufenn earns Very Good ratings on a wide range of CR's tests. One shortcoming, however: a Fair rating for wet braking. Its 70,000-mile predicted tread wear is a good showing among SUV/truck all-seasons.

About The Laufenn X Fit HT is part of the Tire test program at Consumer Reports. In our lab tests, Tire models like the X Fit HT are rated on multiple criteria, such as those listed below. Dry braking: Dry braking is measure of stopping performance from 60 to 0 mph. Wet braking: Wet braking is measure of stopping performance from 60 to 0 mph. Handling: For most tires, Handling includes how well the tires perform; in an avoidance maneuver involving a swerve into the left lane and back into the right lane; on CR's wet handling circuit; and steering feel.

Specs o Speed rating = T o Treadwear warranty = 60000 o UTQG treadwear = 620 o UTQG traction = A o UTQG temperature = B o Size tested = 265/65R17 o Available sizes = 225/70R15, 225/65R17, 235/70R16, 235/65R17, 235/65R18, 235/60R18, 245/75R16, 245/65R17, 245/70R17, 245/60R18, 255/70R16, 265/70R16, 265/70R17

Interestingly, I ran a CR comparison of Laufenn to Hancook scores: o 70 Hankook Winter i*cept evo2 o 70 Hankook Winter i*Cept iZ2 o 70 Hankook Ventus V12 evo2 o 68 *Laufenn X Fit HT* o 68 Hankook Dynapro HT o 66 Laufenn X Fit AT o 66 Hankook Dynapro HP2 o 66 Hankook Dynapro AT-M o 63 Hankook Kinergy PT o 60 Laufenn I Fit Ice o 57 Hankook Ventus S1 noble 2 o 56 Hankook I*Pike RW11 o 50 Laufenn S Fit AS

[Arlen Holder]

As noted elsewhere, the problem with the "boy racer" reviews is that they're likely almost never scientific, where tire noise is one example of the flaws of reviews (as others mentioned in recent threads).

The problem with noise is, as I see it, the same as the problem with almost all tire specs that matter to the consumer. o We don't have the specs

At least, not in the USA,

But this article below says Europe has noise specs! o Is noise really all the tire's fault?

"The ECE noise standards were first applied to OE tires on new vehicles beginning in 2004 and have expanded to all tires sold in Europe."

"In addition to the ECE branding, beginning on Nov. 1, 2012... The external noise generated by the tire is indicated both in decibels (dBs) and by black sound waves that indicate the noise class of the tire, from 1 (quiet) to 3 (loud). 1 black sound wave: Already 3dB below the 2016 European limit 2 black sound waves: Already com­pliant with the 2016 European limit 3 black sound waves: Compliant with the 2012 European limit

However, in the USA, we don't have noise specs printed on the sidewall.

Hence, it's _impossible_ (in effect), IMHO, in the USA, to compare tires by clearly valuable but factually unattainable specs, such as the amount of noise the tires will generate on your vehicle, on the roads you drive, the way you drive them, etc.

That's why I compare tires by attainable reliable specs, but that having been said, this noise concept intrigues me in that maybe we _can_ find more information about what generates this noise, and how to compare tires for it.

Googling, this may be apropos (depending on the reliability of the source) o The Fight Against Tire Noise

(1) "The most common noise produced by tires is tire pattern noise. Pattern noise is what people usually are referring to when talking about tire noise; it occurs because air is trapped in the tread pattern and is suddenly released as the tire rolls along the road surface."

(2) "Tires also make noise because the tread elements squirm under the weight of the car and slip over the pavement."

(3) "The squealing noise that occurs during rapid acceleration, hard braking and high speed cornering is a result of significant slippage of the rubber on the road surface. This slippage creates an intense self-induced vibration of the tread that produces the sounds TV and movie producers are so enamored with."

(4) "The combination of poor tire uniformity and a rough road surface can result in what is known as elastic vibration noise."

The article makes a bunch of "noise" expectation recommendations, such as:

(A) "In general, vehicles carrying a light load produce lower tire noise than those with heavy loads. "

(B) "Tires running higher inflation pressures generate lower noise levels compared to those with lower inflation levels. "

(C) "Radials are much quieter than bias tires, and high speeds result in more noise than lower speeds."

Where they summarize the problem set as: (a) "Slick tires on pool table-smooth roads would produce a lot less noise."

(b) " Unfortunately, the need for wet weather traction requires coarse road surfaces and tread patterns that drain away water. And roads are made up of a variety of materials that inevitably include bumps, manhole covers, pavement joints and other obstacles."

(c) "Tires get noisier as they wear because of their construction, tread design and uneven wear. As a tire wears and the thickness of the tread and its sound insulating properties are reduced, it gets closer to its belts and reinforcements – this can increase tire noise."

And... (d) "Directional tires often get louder as they wear; much more than non-directional tread designs."

See also these posts about tire noise in o

o

[Arlen Holder]

Thanks for your input, as I love to learn all that I can about tires. o Where most people don't seem to understand why we strive to learn.

To them, they buy tires by "price", "warranty", & (it seems), MARKETING. o Whereas I try to buy tires by facts that matter about tires.

To that end, and in keeping with adding value with ever thread, I watched, reviewed, and summarized a bunch of videos on YouTube which showed how tires are made, all of which should add value to our existing knowledge on choosing tires: o *How Tires are made*