Questions about mounting & balancing new LT tires on new steel rims at home (match mounting marks, red dots, yellow dots, & spacers)

[Ed Pawlowski]

Up front sounds good. You won't really know for maybe 10,000 miles.

[hubops]

It's ~ the price of 1 mid-grade tire installed & balanced & taxes here in southern Ontario Canada. My 4 year old Kia OEM summer and dealership winter tires were Nexen brand - I've had more tire problems in those 4 years than the previous 20 years. .. random sidewall leaks ! with no damage scrapes or anything ... on 2 of the OEM summer. ... with less than half tread wear ... geeeze. John T.

[Arlen Holder]

Hi Ed Pawlowski,

Thanks for that assessment, where all I ever care about are the facts. o All our decisions are to be based on facts - never on marketing bullshit.

The first set of facts we started with are printed on the driver door jamb: o

I advised the kids to purchase nothing _less_ than those original specs! o GVWR = 4600/02087 LB/KG o GAWR FRT = 2500/01134 LB/KG o GAWR RR = 2700/01225 LB/KG o PAYLOAD = 1265/574 LB/KG o SBPL FRT = P215/65R15, RTG = H, RIM = 15X7JJ, COLD = 35/240 PSI/KPA o SBPL RR = P215/65R15, RTG = H, RIM = 15X7JJ, COLD = 35/240 PSI/KPA o SPBP SPA = P215/65R15, RTG = H, RIM = 15X6JJ, COLD = 35/240 PSI/KPA (Note the spare tire, underslung under the bed, is a different rim.)

The second set of facts we looked at for each tire to be considered: o Laufenn "G FIT AS", P215/65R15 96H LH41 $40 each, mounted & balanced o Load index = 96 (1,565 pounds, 710 kg) o Speed rating = H (130 mph, 210 km/h) o Treadwear = 500 o Traction = A o Temperature = A Where the lookups were based on well-known published tables such as:

While the warranty never impacted our decision process (as that's just marketing positioning), Laufenn offers a treadlife warrnty on all their tires (although we can discuss that marketing bullshit later if we must).

What I care about are facts - not marketing or other bullshit. o I make decisions based on facts.

One other fact I have on treadlife is that Consumer Reports tested "similar" Laufenn tires (but not this specific "G Fit AS" tire).

For example, CR tested treadwear & projected tread life as follows: o Laufenn X Fit AT = Projected tread life 75,000 miles based on CR's tests o Laufenn S Fit AS = Projected tread life 60,000 miles based on CR's tests

And, in fact, CR stated for all the tested Laufenn tires I could find: o "tested tread life exceeds warranty"

So I'm curious, Ed, what facts you know that CR & I don't seem to know?

To the point that they will last "maybe 10,000 miles", I simply ask for what facts you used to base that "maybe 10,000 miles" assessment upon?

[Arlen Holder]

Ooops. Allow me to _instantly_ apologize to Ed Pawlowski!

I sent the WRONG post, as I had reconsidered what I wrote and had NOT intended to send that post (nor one I had written to Clare of similar ilk).

The problem was I had _expected_ Ed to be cynical, so I read into what he wrote _more_ than what he actually said.

Which means I broke my own rule of making decisions based ONLY on facts.

I apologize.

Ed - correctly - said I won't know for sure until the kid has driven on the tires for about 10,000 miles!

I apologize, openly, publicly, and honestly to Ed for misinterpreting what he said.

What Ed said was entirely apropos. o What I said, was not!

I apologize.

[Arlen Holder]

Hi John T,

On the treadwear issue, what I deplore is that we really do not have any good FACTS on how long a tire will last in our definition of "normal use".

I've struggled for years trying to figure out how to tell by facts how long a tire "should" last in normal use (or in our use, which may not be normal as this Toyota SUV shows:

As Xeno has aptly described in other threads, "my" use of tires turns out to be unduly harsh, as this Lexus SUV shows:

or this BMW SUV shows:

What Ed said about miles was appropriate, which is we won't really be able to tell until we look at the tires after, oh, about 10,000 miles or so, where this, for example, is camber scrub on a Toyota SUV tire after fewer than 1000 miles:

Luckily, this kid lives in the flatlands of Silicon Valley, where the climate and terrain is so mild that he shouldn't get whatever the typical mileage should be for those particular tires, instead of what we get (in what turns out to be extreme use with respect to camber scrub issues):

But what _is_ that typical mileage for those Laufenn tires? o We really do not have a lot of facts.

The only treadlife "fact" I have, for example, is the treadwear is 500.

One other fact is that Consumer Reports tested four of these Laufenn tires, but unfortunately not the one tire this kid bought, but where every one of the Laufenn tires Consumers Union tested exceeded the treadwear warranty, which, I agree, is a bullshit marketing figure, but which is 45,000 miles on these tires.

CR rated the Laufenn tires it did test at 60,000 & 75,000 miles, which, for me, would be heaven on earth as I don't get more than about 20K or 30K per in my use (admittedly with camber scrub & punctures doing almost all the damage).

In summary, treadwear is an important fact to know, but, what FACTS do we have to predict treadwear given any particular new tire in our hands?

[hubops]

Facts ? ... what are that ! I'll trust the opinions of some people < not everyone > when they tell me their real-life experiences with tires - good or bad. I'll trust my recent experience with these Nexen tires - - and never buy another. I'll even be suspicious of any Korean brand tire now. My brother doesn't even shop around any more - he goes to Costco and buys Michelin. I might do the same, in future. John T.

[Clare Snyder]

Well, at least he had it on jack stands. Likely just as safe as walking down the stairs carrying a sandwich.

[Ed Pawlowski]

First, don't put words in my mouth. I said nothing of them LASTING "maybe 10,000 miles." I said we may know then if it is a good deal and a lot of factors come into play aside from tread life. It may take that long to give a good assessment.

Like you, I deal with facts Tires lose air over time. How much? Materials and construction make a difference. Most will lose from 1 to 3 psi a month. Will these be in that range? You don't know. No facts here yet

Will they be subject to blowing out more or less if you hit a pot hole. Do you have a fact on that?

Traction on various road types and wet conditions. Do you have a fact on that? You only have a number based on standardized testing that may or may not be the same as your driving conditions.

Consumer Reports did tread life testing on similar tires. Good chance these will be similar. I will agree there.

How durable are they compared to others if you rub a curb? No facts on that either.

Are the quiet or noisy? Harsh or soft ride?

You may have the tire buy of the century or you may have a big turkey egg. You made an educated guess on a series of standardized testing but the result, like any tire, performance will vary depending on your particular use. Like I said, it will take some miles to find if they suit your needs well.

[hubops]

All my purchasing decisions are made by reading the online reviews - the only source of truth .. John T.

[Clare Snyder]

I suspect by 10,000 miles it will be starting to get obvious

[Clare Snyder]

And compared to the Laufenn brand, the Nexens are premium tires ---.

[Clare Snyder]

I've been buying Michelin and Nokian the last while. Had BFG on the Taurus but who'd have thought they put the same name on 3 entirely different tires. There's good TigerPaw Tourings, their's OK TigerPaw Tourings and there's good for crap Tiger Paw Tourings. Even the "good" ones were not what I would call a premium touring tire. ANd DEFINITELY not an "ALL" season tire!!!

[Clare Snyder]

I'm betting the sidewalls are cracked within 18months and the wet traction is terrible . The rubber is HARD. Not to mention the OEM standard tire on that Chevy half ton club cab truck was borderline undersized to start with .

[Ed Pawlowski]

Thank you

[Ed Pawlowski]

Even there, you have to actually read and assess them. I've seen one star reviews with "I ordered the wrong color and don't like it" or even "the delivery guy left in at the side instead of the front door"

[Ed Pawlowski]

If I was selling a car with worn tires I'd put a set of those on just so they look good for the buyer.

[hubops]

I was just kidding. I put ~ zero trust in online reviews. I've seen online reviews that aren't even about the actual product - about some different model .. etc. John T.

[Xeno]

Looked like quite robust jack stands as well.

[Vic Smith]

The only place I've used online reviews was from Tirerack.com. There were a number of reviewers that had run the tires on my exact car, and read like they were paying attention to the tires they bought. I was very happy with the tires. A now discontinued Goodyear. But I haven't seen that happen with subsequent cars. Talking to the Just Tires manager has gotten me good results though. There has to be a lot of reviews to make them worthwhile, and as you said you have to wade though them to get rid of the garbage.

[Arlen Holder]

Hi Clare,

I appreciate that you risked an opinion on the Laufenn tire quality.

I can't vouch for the durability of the tire, since the only specs that relate to durability are the load index and speed and temp ratings, all of which simply meet or exceed the original specs as printed on the door jamb.

If _that_ OEM spec is "undersized", then, well, at least we exceeded it.

As for "wet traction", all we know is that it got an A for wet traction (but not an AA); but I don't think anyone would call an "A" terrible.

Would they? o The A indicates an asphalt G-Force of "above 0.47" (but below 0.54?). o The A indicates a concrete G-Force of "0.35" (but below 0.38?)

Interestingly, compound matters for the test more than tread pattern: "Since this test evaluates a sliding tire at a constant 40 mph, it places more emphasis on the tire's tread compound and less emphasis on its tread design"

While I can clearly ascertain that feel these tires are of low quality, I see precious few actual facts that we can state about these tires which deserves such denigration, IMHO.

I'm not saying they're great tires - as I wouldn't know - and I never even heard of the brand until now - but I am saying that the specs appear to be just fine, as far as I can tell.

What else by way of facts do we have, other than the specs? o And the CR tests (which tested all but this one model of Laufenn tire).