Proposed Project Check

I live in a duplex converted to a single-family residence. It is served by two electricity drops going to two meters connected to two circuit breaker boxes. The boxes are on the exterior wall and about eight inches apart.

Each month I write two checks. (I tried writing one check for both bills; one account ended up with a credit and I got a disconnect notice for the other. Go figure.). Even if I use NO power, there's still a minimum bill, around $18/month. The power company still has to read the meter, send out a zero bill, keep records, etc. I don't begrudge them this minimum amount, but there might be a way to avoid it.

I'm thinking of pushing all the power through one meter and disconnecting the service for the other side of the duplex. I did this with the natural gas connection and saved the $17.50 minimum monthly charge.

To do this, my current scheme is a pair of 60-amp breakers in the powered box leading to the buss on the disconnected side (plus the neutral).

Both breaker boxes are rated for 200-amp service, but the largest load are the a/c units and they're each served by a pair of 30-amp breakers. All other electrical items are minimal - lighting, computer, etc. Stove, dryer, and water heater are all gas.

Comments on the plan/scheme would certainly be welcome. Thanks.

P.S. I'd be doing the work myself, so a possible $800 charge for a licensed, certified, and disease-free professional electrician would not enter into the computation.

Reply to
HeyBub
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Either keep paying for two bills or call the power company to have the two electric meters replaced with one meter feeding the two panels...

Your idea of cross feeding would not be consistent with electrical code as you are feeding a panel with a 200 amp main disconnect from a

60 amp breaker...

If the "loads" aren't such that you need two panels you could move all the circuits over to one panel and have the other electrical meter removed...

If you do it the way you described you will only find that it will cause problems down the road...

~~ Evan

Reply to
Evan

Sounds like you have one drop and two standpipes. I can't imagine two drops, but I suppose it's possible. If each standpipe is 200 amp, I would remove the unnecessary standpipe, meter pan and service entrance cable to it's respective panel, and blank that knockout. If you only want to feed the now dead panel with a 2 pole 60 amp breaker, I would relocate the airconditioning condenser cable from that panel and move it to the main panel. This will minimize dimming when it starts. You will also need to remove the bonding jumper on the now "sub panel", and probably install a ground bar and remove all the bare equipment grounding conductors from the neutral bar and move them to it. Your feeder from the main panel will require 4 conductors, two hot, one neutral, one ground

Reply to
RBM

Why do you think that the power company would do this?

Why not?

Nothing wrong with that. It'll be 60 amp wire protected by a 60 amp breaker. The existing 200 amp is now moot. It would be the same if it only had main lugs

Reply to
RBM

If you get your power company involved in any way, you will HAVE to have a licensed electrician do the work and he/she will have to get local permits which will require inspection from your local government agent. There is no way around it.

Paul

Reply to
Paul Drahn

Says who and for where? What's allowed in TX is likely very different from NYC. Here in NJ a homeowner is allowed to do work on their own home that they occupy. Perfectly legal as long as you get the necessary permit.

Reply to
trader4

Thanks for the advice. What problems "down the road?"

Reply to
HeyBub

Yeah. My misinformation. One drop, two standpipes.

Good idea. I was trying to minimize the difficulty in returning everything to its original configuration.

Reply to
HeyBub

I'm in Houston. What's this "permit" silliness?

When I replaced the circuit breaker box, I called the light company to un-seal the meter. After I finished the job, I called the light company again. They came out an re-sealed the meter. No permits, licensed experts, or genuflections required.

Reply to
HeyBub

Scary isn't it. I feel like I'm over regulated, but when I read some of these posts, OMG it really is scary. What really kills me is that some of these folks really believe that we couldn't function without a plethora of government regulators, inspectors, agents, and what have you, following us around and wiping our noses

Reply to
RBM

I am assuming these panels are very close together too, just in the other "dwelling" (not "grouped" unless you rip out the wall) I see 2 choices, Plan A

If your panel supports feed through lugs, feed the second panel from the rails of the first one using a 4 wire feeder sized to 200a or put in a breaker and do it at 100a. (about as big a breaker as you can hang on a pair of slots.)

BTW for the code junkies, what is the paradox with the feed through option?

Plan B would be converting the whole service to 400a. You can take one of the service entrance sets, upgraded to 400mcm copper (or whatever the PoCo wants to call it, they may say it is

320a) , Set the appropriate disconnect, split it with Polaris style connectors (clones are a lot cheaper than the brand name) and feed both panels at 200a (in pipe) Let the PoCo decide how they want to upsize your service on their side.
Reply to
gfretwell

Remember, this is the LEFT coast!

Paul

Reply to
Paul Drahn

Two units currently being used as one with "dodgey" crossfeeding ? Why were 200 amp services installed to each side of the duplex to begin with ? How large in total area are both of the units ? Just because your present usage can be met with one 200 amp service doesn't mean that you should remove and try to cobble together the two separate services into one...

You aren't using both kitchens are you ? Does that mean you should remove one ?

~~ Evan

Reply to
Evan

Except that unless the OP goes before his local zoning authorities and cedes the current permitted use for two units in the duplex and obtains a new permit considering the building as only a single dwelling, each of the units need to meet code as a separate and individually considered space...

I don't see how 60 amp power supply to one of the units from the other unit's power panel would do that... Not if half of that is powering only the AC unit...

Just because the OP is presently using them as a single unit doesn't mean that they are legally considered as a single space...

Not since when constructed or last modified they were required to be provided with separate 200 amp services...

~~ Evan

Reply to
Evan

I am sorry, but until each homeowner who does such "work" receives a $150,000 bill on top of whatever rebuilding costs are involved after they burn down their house as they are going to be making use of the fire department my property tax money helps to fund to put out the fire that would result from improperly done "work" which was never inspected nor correctly done, I want those government regulators, inspectors and agents at least verifying that the "work" that the DIY types have done won't immediately set the house on fire... Especially if said home is only 30 feet away from mine...

Do you think that your trade would function better without that layer of the uninterested 3rd party (a.k.a. the wiring inspector) protecting your business/license in the event something happens down the line... Your word that you completed the work properly isn't very compelling evidence if a fire or worse occurs... But when you have the documentation that the work done passed inspection, you would not remain the default suspected cause of the problems, if some other cause wasn't glaringly obvious... Not to mention that the wiring inspector is interested in having safe work done in their jurisdiction that meets or exceeds the code standards that the jurisdiction has accepted and operate under...

So how close to your home would you want an amateur hour electrical job that even a first year student in the trade wouldn't do work that badly located to where you sleep at night putting your life in possible danger ? Hmm, if not for wiring, as you feel safe with idiots being allowed to risk not only their lives but others as well, what about for gas piping or plumbing... Would your opinion on the matter change if you were at risk of your neighbor blowing you up in a gas explosion or having the hot water heater they tried to "fix" by removing safety devices from the tank land on you as you sleep in bed at night and you still feel the way you do about "over regulation" in your own trade... LOL...

~~ Evan

Reply to
Evan

I'm in Houston. We don't have zoning. Some newer residential sub-divisions have deed restrictions, but zoning? None. I could chop this building into a four-plex (or more) and the city is indifferent. I could turn the property into a high-end dog kennel and the city is indifferent. I could convert the house into a metal stamping shop (gold plating at extra cost) and the city wouldn't care.

Half of it is not powering the a/c. The a/c is protected by a pair of 30-amp breakers, but, presumably, the a/c draws less than the full 30 amps.

I've measured the rest. With almost everything except the a/c running (lights, TV, microwave), the total draw is less than 20 amps.

My county tax assessor disagrees. I simply announced that the building was now a single-family residence and the tax dropped by 40%.

As best I can tell, when this neighborhood was built (early '60's), there was no requirement for a minimum service. Further, to the best of my knowledge, there is no city requirement along those lines even today.

Reply to
HeyBub

Because the building was a DUPLEX.

1500 sq ft

I agree. But it doesn't mean I can't or shouldn't either.

One kitchen HAS been removed - to meet the definition of "single family residence." That is, the stove and refrigerator were taken out and replaced by a mini-fridge and a microwave. The area formerly known as "kitchen" is now called the "snack area and bar."

Okay, all that said, I'll repeat the question: "What problems 'down the road' ".

Reply to
HeyBub

Me. Raises hand.

Reply to
HeyBub

By that logic, it's either inspectors or a fire department: pick one.

Yes.

Reply to
HeyBub

Fair enough. I just don't see most locations as being quite as controlled or regulated as where you are. In my area, the four power companies that I work with, don't do jack on a residential dwelling. It's all done by the electrician. Regarding the adequacy of the service itself, my impression was that 200 amps per side of a duplex that has gas cooking and heating, was way overkill and once converted to a single family, you'd be eliminating one kitchen, so the entire panel would only be doing lights and outlets. (except for the A/C) which I would move to the main panel, or increase the feeder to the sub to 100 amps.

Reply to
RBM

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