re: Fact is, 99.9% of people that have been buying full tanks for the past 20 or 40 years don't look at the net weight every time they buy.
I don't doubt the marking at all. You are one of the very few that actually looks at that. Most people have no clue aside from the fact it is a "20 pound" tank.
When prices drop, they have plenty of signs reading "New-- Lower Price" in big letters Same can be done with higher price if they wanted to.
re: but they don't put 120 ounces of milk in a 128 ounce container
They did it for icecream containers, tuna cans, and many other items. Can be done. I'd rather p ay the higher price and keep containers the same and make less trips. There is a definite cost to the lower price as the product does not last as long nad has to be hauled more often.
I've never been charged *once* in the decades of letting my tanks run empty - assuming that when my grill flame goes out, the tank is empty.
******************************************
Only time a tank has to be purged is when new and filled the first time. They never have negative pressure so no air is sucked back in. I've heard of charging for a purge, but no one ever has on any tank I've bought over the years.
Then why did you say "The tanks size was not changed and no notice of a change in weight was posted."?
Do you want them the label the tanks as "15 lbs, used to be 17"? or "The tank formally known as 17"?
Right, but why would they want to?
You don't refill ice cream containers or tuna cans. They are always made new. I'm not a manufacturing engineer, but I'm pretty sure that retooling for ice cream containers and tuna cans is a lot cheaper than retooling for propane tanks and having to pull all of the existing ones off the market. In addition, I'm sure we're paying for the retooling of the ice cream container and tuna can lines. You should be
*thanking* them for not making 15 lb tanks. It's keeps the cost down.
That's a totally different discussion. The fact that you would be willing to pay the higher cost doesn't mean that you're getting "ripped off" if they put 15 lbs in a container that can hold 17 - and mark it as such.
I said it because people are getting less than expected. Less than they used to get. I also stated the label has the weight in the fine print, but the container size is the same. The eis no notice, of course, on the display. If the amount was increased, yo can be sure it would be touted and new and wonderful and clears acne on teenagers, or whatever.
Right, but why would they want to?
******************************************* Honesty and integrity? They could have said "now, for your convenience, easier on the back to haul"
You don't refill ice cream containers or tuna cans. They are always made new. I'm not a manufacturing engineer, but I'm pretty sure that retooling for ice cream containers and tuna cans is a lot cheaper than retooling for propane tanks and having to pull all of the existing ones off the market. In addition, I'm sure we're paying for the retooling of the ice cream container and tuna can lines. You should be
*thanking* them for not making 15 lb tanks. It's keeps the cost down.
*********************************************************************** You'd be amazed at how much goes into icecream containers, retooling printing plates, changing master cartons, wrappers, pallet layouts, fillers batching, etc. Very expensive. Propane tanks just need the center section shortened, bt allthe welding remains the same, as are the fittings.
That's a totally different discussion. The fact that you would be willing to pay the higher cost doesn't mean that you're getting "ripped off" if they put 15 lbs in a container that can hold 17 - and mark it as such.
*********************************************************** Call it what you want (or not). Call it the great propane charade of 2009. You can bet at the corporate meetings they discussed making more profit, now how to save the consumer a bigger payout. IMO, when you short fill a big container it is deception. Cereal makers were dointhings like that years ago and the truth in packaging laws stopped them. The executives would not be back peddaling in the newspapers around the country if what they did was a good thing.
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in news:UdoSl.11132$ snipped-for-privacy@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com:
Containers where the customer can see the product tend to get resized to meet the newly downsized weight/volume,or where the customer views the product level inside the container as "too low",but stuff like metal propane tanks would not get resized,the change is too small and not readily visible to the customer.
Ther only time the tank needs to be purged is when it has been filled with something other than propane. New tanks have been filled with air for pressure testing.
Are many just discovering the propane fill change? If so, you don't keep up with consumer news very well. This change in fill was instituted last year.
Tank exchange was $20 - somewhat over $5/gal for the propane. Looking at old rusty tank on grill now, I'll probably exchange that one too and thereafter go to the refill station.
What has me and probably everyone else pissed is the way they sneaked this in. 5 gal tank, you'd think you would get 5 gal back. They clearly show weight they give you on label but how many of us look at these things and how many people know that propane weighs about 4 lb/gal? That's the rip off.
You really need an explanation? Okay. The yellow band is suggesting that it is marking how much extra product you are getting. It suggests a much bigger bonus than the actual amount.
The print size on my tank is not "fine". It's at least as big as their claim that "America's Grillin' with AmeriGas." More importantly , it's the same size print as when it used to say "Net Weight 17 lbs." It's prominently displayed on what could be considered the front panel. No deception, no attempt to conceal the net weight figure from the consumer.
When you see a sign that says "New - Lower Price" do you blindly assume the amount of product you are getting is the same? Unless it says "Same Amount - Lower Price", I'm checking the label and/or unit pricing is to make sure they're not trying to fool me.
Is that why they only put 15 lbs in the tank? If not, then they are not being honest. What I'm hearing here is that you don't think it's enough that they clearly marked the label with the net weight of the product but that it would be better if they treated us like idiots by claiming they are trying to save our backs.
Now you're treating me like an idiot. If not, then you don't really understand how complicated it would be to "just shorten the center section". Let's go all the way back to the sizing of the raw material to eliminate waste and follow it through each part of the assembly line where nothing is in position to weld, move, stack or pack the shorter tanks. Printing plates, wrappers, stackers, tar weight stampers, everything has to change.
Let's call it a wash on the manufacturing end. However, if we really want full tanks, then you'll to have to pay for the smaller tanks and lose the exchange discount, at least the first time you go to exchange the tank. What's the point? There is no payback period because I didn't save anything. I don't need to pay for a 15 tar tank just so it will be full. I'll keep my 17 tar and save the cost.
The truth in my packaging says that there is 15 lbs net weight in my tank. That's really the only truth an educated consumer needs.
Now you're treating me like an idiot. If not, then you don't really understand how complicated it would be to "just shorten the center section". Let's go all the way back to the sizing of the raw material to eliminate waste and follow it through each part of the assembly line where nothing is in position to weld, move, stack or pack the shorter tanks. Printing plates, wrappers, stackers, tar weight stampers, everything has to change.
*********************************************************************** You may feel like an idiot, but I'm not treating you like one. I've been in manufacturing and packaging for the past 40+ years. I've been in the factories that make tanks, I've been in the factories that make containers. I've done some of the engineering to make special sheet metal parts, and more.
Fact is, reducing the amount of product in a package is done for one reason and one reason only. To keep the selling cost the same and hope the customer does not notice the difference. Ice cram was sold in half gallon containers for decades, then they went to 1.75 quart and now 1.5 quart. At what point does it stop? 4 ounces? 2 ounces? It is a silly game that will catch up in the end and the ratio of packaging material to product increases making it less and less cost effective for the company and consumer. The lid stays the same if the container is 3" high or 6" high or 12" high. The ratio of product gets less and less efficient though.
If enough of us make it know that the practice is shady, at best, companies will stop the nonsense. You may continue to pay the higher price for less merchandise if you choose. I'm making my voice heard.
I'd sure like to know what you've been told 'cuz as I've said, for decades I've been running mine until the grill flames die, and no one
- not BJ's, U-Haul, the local rent-all places or anyone else that fills propane tanks has ever said anything to me.
I have never taken a tank in that wasn't completely empty. I usually figure out I am out of gas when the grill stops working. I do shut the valve to keep it from "breathing" air into it from temperature changes but that is from my experience with SCUBA tanks and welding. I do try to leave a little pressure in those tanks if I can. They always charge you for a full tank there too, whether they are empty or half full.
re: You may continue to pay the higher price for less merchandise if you choose.
I'm not "choosing" to pay the higher price for less merchandise because I don't have a choice - unless I chose not to buy at all. If I want propane/ice cream/cat food/underwear/nuts/whatever I have to pay the price that they sell for.
My only option is to be a smart consumer and get the best deal I can. The only way I - or anyone - can do that is to read the labels, determine the unit price and decide (chose) whether to make that purchase or not.
Good luck with your campaign to get manufactures to change their practices. I guess when we start paying $20 for 17 lbs instead of $17.65 for 15 lbs all will be right with the world. Oh wait, doesn't that work out to $1.18/lb in both cases?
Don't blame the manufacturers if consumers aren't reading the labels on the products they buy. If that were the case, they we could all sue AmeriGas if our family dies because we opened the tank in the house and let the gas fill the room just prior to lighting that stogy. All of the warnings are right there on the label - in a text size that is considerably smaller than the net weight text - but that wouldn't matter because according to you we don't have to read the labels to understand what we are buying. That's not our responsibility.
Let's make a deal - you keep trying to get the manufacturers to raise their prices and keep the net weight constant and I'll keep reading the labels so I know what I'm paying for.
************************************************ So they why not continue to buy those items int he same s izes that have worked for decades?
My only option is to be a smart consumer and get the best deal I can. The only way I - or anyone - can do that is to read the labels, determine the unit price and decide (chose) whether to make that purchase or not.
************************************************* Make your voice heard. It can work. Just like elections.
Good luck with your campaign to get manufactures to change their practices. I guess when we start paying $20 for 17 lbs instead of $17.65 for 15 lbs all will be right with the world. Oh wait, doesn't that work out to $1.18/lb in both cases?
************************************************ Yes, but when the same size container that has been filled to 17# suddenly becomes 15 pounds for $20, it is a deceptive practice. You can tell me all you want, but my guess is that you have not read the label every single time you buy propane for the past 30 years or so.
.
Let's make a deal - you keep trying to get the manufacturers to raise their prices and keep the net weight constant and I'll keep reading the labels so I know what I'm paying for.
************************************************* I do both.
HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.