Professionals Reply Only

To each his own. From now on, when I hear someone pining for the good-old-days, I'll think of you.

And dentistry.

Reply to
HeyBub
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If you want a PROFESSIONAL opinion, you should really ask such questions on alt.hvac.

The good folks over there will be more than willing to give you an opinion. Many of them have one year's experience twenty times.

Reply to
HeyBub

I am with you on the keyless chucks. I hate them for drills also. They are fine if you have bits with flats on them, but they sure suck if you have a round bit.

Reply to
Ralph Mowery

You just have to be a professional. Did not specify at what. Me, I am professional pain-in-the-ass so I am cleared to join the thread (grin).

Reply to
Kurt Ullman

All's I know is that a friend of mine had as his "good" drill a DeWalt with a keyless chuck. Apparently the little teeth that make the keyless thing work were nylon or something because they just wouldn't grab hard enough to really tighten it down, he was ready to chuck it in the dumpster. Found a Jacobs chuck at HF of all places for like $5, it's now usable again.

The little rubber straps that hold the chuck key to the cord are, well, key.

nate

Reply to
Nate Nagel

Hey I consider the serious tool user a pro. I didn't want to hear from the B&D crowd!

Reply to
evodawg

I agree those are 2 quality tool manufactures

Reply to
evodawg

yeah no kidding! Amateurs can't fathom how hard it is to become a professional!

Oh yeah, that's right, it isn't hard. Just get a license, slap a name on the side of a beat up pickup and call yourself a "professional".

*snort*
Reply to
01dyna

I know a lot of fitters are using Hilti now, but I also see that they are being sold at HD in a special display, does that mean that one should stock up on tools now before Hilti quality drops like everyone else's?

They do seem to have at least one market cornered, e.g. "Hilti gun" now seems to be common usage for a powder-actuated nailer (hey, I missed that in the thread re: Crescent wrench, Vise-grip, Kleins, etc.)

nate

Reply to
Nate Nagel

I think they do. Years ago it wasn't uncommon that if someone had a pension plan the pension funds were commingled with the companies other funds. So if "Dry Creek Zinc" went broke the pension money was gone too. Then the government established a very simple requirement that the pension fund which belonged to the employees must be given to and held by a trustee. As time went on the companies protested on the basis it wasn't necessary to do this because using "smoke and mirrors" accounting they could show that far less than the actual pension money needed to be held in reserve. So with the shady accounting forecasts and appropriate consideration delivered to the politicians the requirements were changed by the government.

A family member was about to retire from a megacorp. His employment agreement was that he provided service and would get a pension of a certain value and the company would pay his medical insurance. The company he worked for was purchased by an even bigger company. After some time they decided it would be a lot better for them if they screwed everyone (including vendors etc) by filing bankruptcy and opening up under a new name. The net result for my family member was that he gets

45% of his pension and they won't pay his medical insurance.

The leader of megacorp got a $100 Million bonus for his "great work".

Reply to
George

I think it's because you, "no-pro" but serious tool users make up the largest group of tool buyers, that there are currently no truly professional grade tools being made. The manufacturers are simply catering to the largest demand, also, the current crop of tools aren't horrible, so the professional user just replaces them more often

>
Reply to
RBM

Nate Nagel wrote: ...

Tell him to buy Milwaukee Red.

Like most everything else, it depends on the quality and design of the keyless chuck. I have no trouble w/ the Milwaukee, can't stand the two-piece on some other thing which I don't even recall what is otomh it's used so rarely...

Good one-piece keyless chucks are fine.

--

Reply to
dpb

SS has always been pay as you go. SS will run into troubles because the ratio of those working will be smaller relative to the number of those on retirement. Currently there is something like 1 retiree for every 14 or 15 worker. At the top of the baby boom retirement it will be closed to 3:1. Three workers supporting every retiree instead of the current number. Add in the pyramid scheme that is and always was the reform in the

80s (we got all these extra taxes for the "surplus" which then goes into a bunch of non-marketable government bonds with no idea where the money is going to come from to redeem them. Not even using MC to pay your Visa, this like getting a cash advance on your MC to pay your Visa.
Reply to
Kurt Ullman

That was my thinking. There is sort of an insurance fund (forgot what it is actually called) where if the conpany or fund goes bankrupt then you get about 1/3 of the promised money. There was a program on 60 minuits a while back about a company that did that. They had an eairly retirement similar to where I work. Some retired at 55 and were getting around $ 1200 per month. The company went out of business and they were reduced to $ 400 per month. The retirement money is earned and should be put back in a safe place. Most companies underfund the retirement. I forgot the way General Motors did theirs but it is now adding over $ 1000 to every new car sold by them. If they sell less cars, the cost per car will go up and the profit will go down.

Didn't the government do about the same to the social security ? Big pool of money just sitting there and someone just wanted to get their hands on it. That is why they say the social security money will run out.

Reply to
Ralph Mowery

So its my fault.

I buy the best tools available. As a society of consumers, we too often want cheap; not to mention the throw away mentality. Harbor Freight would not exist if they depended on me as I've never been inside of one, nor do I intend to. It is not just tools, it is the $7 toasters and $10 shoes. It is the weekend warrior that wants to look cool but does not want to pay much.

If the pro was willing to pay more, we'd have better quality tools. Manufacturers are interested in profit first. If they can get by with something that functions well for 5 to 10 years, that is certainly better for them than to build something that will last 20 years and cost 25% more. Face it, it is better for them to have you buy a new drill, router, whatever in five years than for them to inventory replacement parts for 15 years.

Reply to
Edwin Pawlowski

Back in 1973 I worked for an electrical parts distributer that was a Black and Decker dealer. We sold two different B&D 1/4" drills, no cordless back then. One drill sold for $100.00 and the other sold for $10.00. The reason being the problem of tools on construction sites often evolve and grow legs for some odd reason and the damn things keep running away. B&D sold the $10.00 drills for the contractors who tired of the high cost of run away tools. At the end of the job, they would toss the $10.00 drill into the junk pile and buy more for the next job. So there is a place in the professional work place for those cheap toys from Harbor Freight.

[8~{} Uncle Monster
Reply to
Uncle Monster

No, not your fault. I trusted a worker with a paint brush for thirty minutes. It was distroyed. He never got my good tools.

Pros will know if the worker can repsect the tool, just that --- a tool.

Reply to
Oren

There is a time and place for Harbor Freight. e.g. I bought a grinder pedestal there for $30. It's cheap, yes, but ordering one for $100 or more online and then paying the freight to have it delivered would be prohibitive. It works. The pipe used for the actual pedestal is a little cheap, and the bolts are very low grade, but if it ever becomes an issue I can certainly pick up some schedule 40 (maybe even from the scrap pile at work) and some 8.8 bolts for far less than the difference in price between HF and the "good stuff."

I agree in principle though; I'll buy grinder pedestals, pickle forks, etc. at HF but I'm not inclined to buy anything electrical or requiring significant amount of stress there. (a friend picked up some pry bars because they were so cheap; they bend easier than a Craftsman screwdriver.)

I did buy a clear water pump there because it was something like $20 but I haven't gotten off my ass yet to try it.

One thing I don't understand is why mfgrs. seem to think users are impressed by gimmicks... I just used a circular saw that I'd received as a gift; typical Craftsman 7-1/4" thing. It has a couple neat features; I like the way the shoe adjusts and it has little LED lights to help you see the workpiece. But it has a feature that I can't help but dismiss as a gimmick - it's got a laser built into it to theoretically line up with the line you've drawn on your workpiece. Which works in principle, IF the saw blade you're using meets their assumptions, and the waste is on the left (or right) of you as you're cutting. I mean, it's kinda neat in a gewgaw sort of way, but trying to figure out whether I need to offset my guide line and how much etc. takes WAY more mental math than simply drawing a line where I want to cut, setting the saw on there, lining the outside of the tooth of the blade up with the line, marking another line, and taking a piece of aluminum angle and C-clamping it to the workpiece. The old-school way ensures a dead straight cut every time, too.

nate

(if I'd bought it myself, I would have gone for an old school worm-drive Skil, but don't look a gift saw in the dust collector or something like that, esp. when you've got some shelves to make.)

Reply to
Nate Nagel

Yes Ed, it's completely your fault, and I wish you'd cut it out.

What I'm saying is that many years ago, there was professional quality and garbage, no middle ground. Today, because many people are handy, and actually use tools, there is mostly middle ground, and very few truely professional grade power tools. Eventually, the quality of the middle ground tools will give way to cheaper and cheaper prices, until they will become garbage. Then some brilliant company will once again introduce a professional grade line of tools, at a high price, and start the cycle over again

Reply to
RBM

I really don't buy into that. Years ago, Black and Decker made top quality professional grade tools. They cost a pile of money and worked great and lasted forever. A professional cannot use a $10 tool, they simply don't get the job done. I think, for B&D, the cheap tool market became to lucrative for them , so that was the market they focused on>

Reply to
RBM

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