OT, this is way off topic, I think, except it takes place in the home.
But I've googled till the cows come home and I don't know who else to
ask. And image googled too.
There used to be on cartons of ice cream and maybe other stuff with a
lot of milk in it, a little logo, about 1/4" high, a capital D in
deep blue, filled with blue, except for a 5-pointed white star in the
middle, filled with white.
I always thought it was a trade group like the Dairy Council, but they
have a different logo, at least now, and I can find no record of this
symbol, though maybe I don't know how to look.
And it's not on any ice cream anymore. or anything, afaict.
Does anyone remember it? Do you know what it stood for? Anything
related to it.
That's a popular notion, but it's really about inspection, not
With a dairy food like ice-cream, an inspector goes to the plant and
checks that there is no meat or meat derivatives in the ice-cream.
Since afaik no one includes meat, probably all ice cream is kosher
even before its inspected, but it also costs very little to get
certified. The inspector might come only once a year.
Canned and frozen vegetables and fruits also require very little
inspection. But if vegetarian baked beans are to be canned using
the same equipment that they used for pork and beans, the inspector
would insist that either the machinery be cleaned very well first, or
they use a different canning line. This is not a problem in today's
large canning factories. They may well use a different line anyway,
or they can use the line they use for string beans and lima beans. And
if a product is to be labeled pareve, neither meat nor milk, the
inspector would compare the ingredient list with his own list and make
sure none of the additives are milk or meat based. Plus he'd go out
and look at the line to make sure it matches the ingredient list, but
there is little or no cheating aiui. Much much more likely are
Meat products take a lot of inspection however, as well as rejection
of animals whose lungs have adhesions (1), and so kosher meat is more
expensive than non-kosher.
1) In most cases meat from such animals is still safe to eat and still
passes DOA inspection, so the slaughtered cow is sold at a discount to
a non-kosher meat company, usually one right next door. Also it is
very difficult and time consuming to remove the sciatic nerve, which
runs down the hind leg of cows (and people) and so the hind quarters
of kosher cows are sold to that same non-kosher meat company.
On 9/14/2012 1:46 PM, email@example.com wrote:
Well, it's _really_ about following the proscriptions/directives;
inspection is simply to confirm that is so (or correct if not, of course)...
There's a kosher packing facility near here (along w/ many others; this
is heart of cattle country; local facility process 3000 head/day+); I
never heard of them passing off hindquarters but I'll see if I can check...
Yes. Important point. I was contrasting blessing with inspecting.
Maybe because it's so standard it's not worth talking about? 3000
head a day is a large number. If the sirloin steaks one would get
from 3000 head were available in kosher meat markets, I would have
heard about it. I would have seen them. But except for Israel, I
don't know anywhere one can get a kosher sirloin.
Okay, I checked and it seems that kosher sirloin, rump roast, and leg
of lamb do exist in the US, but he didn't say where. Probably too
expensive for me anyhow.
I also learned some new stuff about selling the hindquarters. It is
pretty old, starting 350 to 400 yeas ago. Partly because there has
been for that long a shortage of butchers qualified to remove the
sciatic and peroneal nerves (without hacking up the meat), and partly
because ithas been so easy to do where Jews lived among Moslems or
Iin cases where the demand for kosher meat is not great, part of
someone else's slaugtherhouse will be rented for a day, or a few days
a month, and I think all that has to be done is to put the
hindquarters in the other company's refrigerator. In other cases
where they run 35 hours a week, the hindq's might be sent by
On 9/14/2012 4:35 PM, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
I don't "know nuthink'" really about kosher except the word and the
barest of the rules. I was "underneath the impression" (as an old
working buddy who was a walking malaprop factory used to say :) ) that
there were levels of strictness in conformance as there are the various
groups overall from the ultra-orthodox to whatever the other end is...
The facility is in Dodge which is about 80 mi away; it doesn't process
nearly that many altho I'm not sure what their kosher production numbers
were. Now that I'm thinking about it again, though, they had a fire
several years ago and I'm not sure they reopened that line. The main
plant is twice the size of the one here, however, roughly, and there's a
second of roughly the same size as here also in Dodge. So, within a 100
mi radius nearly 20,000 head a day (altho to be clear, all that is
conventional). It's delivered all over the US, to Mexico and Canada and
a great fraction of specialty products from here go to Japan and S Korea.
I'll have to do some more checking on the kosher facility altho a quick
web search didn't find anything on it that is current/since the fire. I
suppose the effort/expense to get it rebuilt to proper standards wasn't
You are correct. There's kosher meat and there's "glat" meat. The latter,
demanded by the ultra-orthodox, comes from animals that are inspected more
rigorously than done for mere kosher. For example, in "glat-kosher," the
lungs of the slaughtered animal are inspected for the absence spots or other
And you're right: there is a spectrum of practice in Judaism. The "Reform"
Jews are often likened to Unitarians and the ultra-orthodox are similar to
Trappist monks! Where this comparison to Christianity breaks down is this:
neither the Reform Jew nor the Hassidic Jew has any problem accepting the
other is Jewish.
Well, in theory it wouldn't have to be. To be "ordained".rabbis have
to know something about a lot of topics ,kosher laws, Sabbath laws,
marriage, divorce, contracts, medical issues, death issues, family
issues, and other things. but the inspector only has to know about
But in practice, when a rabbinical student has his books open, he's
going to read more than the minimum requried and might learn what an
inspector (mashgiach) needs to know. Also, all Jews are supposed to
learn something about all those topics I list above, and a lot more
Orthodox men go on to become rabbis than there are full-time jobs that
require the training a rabbi has. Most Orthodox rabbis are not
congregational rabbis. My own rabbi made his living as a computer
programmer, and when I moved, the rabbi at my shul made his living as
an accountant, and got paid a small salary for administrating the
business of the congregation, inscluding maintaining the building etc.
Rabbis who want to work at least part time in the Jewish world are
going to seek jobs as inspectors, etc.
So in practice, all the inspectors who work with meat are probably
rabbis. And maybe all the ones who go to processed food production
plants of any knid.
I did meet one woman who was an iinspector for a major kosher
inspection organaizatio for large catered dinners. Al she had to do
was make sure that all the food served was kosher, and if it was a
meat meal nothing contained milk, and vice versa.
Most kosher inspection is done by the person who runs the family
kitchen, usually the wfe/mother of the family.
Glad you added that :-)
Muslims have their own method of slaughter also, but they don't seem
to be so strict about it, or at least some aren't. They have a
holiday once a year where each male head of household is supposed to
slaughter his own goat or lamb. Usually the local tv news announces
these things ater they have happened, but one year they reminded me
the night before, so the next day I went. I didn't know what time
and I got there an hour before anyone else, and spent the time cleaing
out my trunk. There must be many times more Muslim families in the
area than came that day.
I had planned to watch the slaughter, but even before anyone arrived,
I walked into the little building and in the first room was a skinned
goat (I think) hanging from a hook, and I was so grossed out I stayed
Still I got to look at the goats in their pen and the lambs in theirs
and to talk to some of the men. I wasn't dressed as a Jew but I told
them I was a Jew and I didn't notice any bad reactions.
Usually inspectors are rabbis, but there is no regulation specifying that
they must be.
For muslims, their food must be "halal" or "fit," much like kosher. Since
the Jewish requirements are more strict, a Mohammaden may eat kosher food
without violating his dietary laws.
As opposed to a Methodist rabbi?
No blessing is involved in kashrut (kosher) certification and Jews don't
bless "things," such as food or shrimp boats. A rabbi is fundamentally a
legal scholar or judge and teacher, not a pastor; he does not stand in as
God's representative on earth as does a Catholic priest.
In order for a food manufacturer to gain certification from one of several
Jewish agencies, his equipment, methods, and ingredients must meet certain
standards. These standards are purely mechanical and straightforward.
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