How much service would an electric car need ?
About all that is needed on most gas cars up to 100,000 miles is an oil change, tires and maybe the brakes . Put some fluid in the windshield washer tank.
With out a gas engine that seems to leave only the tires, breaks, and washer fluid. I would think the batteries would be sealed units.
When we were looking you would typically just deduct the price of the battery but these are not generally a DIY thing so you need to add labor to that. On a hybrid it seems to be $8k-10k That is the cliff on the depreciation curve I was talking about. A Tesla has a much more expensive battery. They are basically a battery that they built a car around.
Batteries add a thousand pounds to the weight of the car meaning extra stress on tires and suspension. I suspect repairs are as high or higher than normal.
I did not research this but this came up on a hit:
You can suspect whatever you like. Doesn't make it true, nor is blind speculation useful.
The model 3 pattery pack weighs 1000#. A small block V8 weighs 600# not counting transmission, add the 400# for the transmission and the motive machinery weight is basically identical between ICE and Electric, plus or minus 100# or so depending on whether the model 3 has one or two electic motors.
No Shit.
Nice change of subject. Bodywork isn't a standard maintenance cost.
I agree and the battery is mounted amidships so it may be easier to balance the weight. More weight on the drivers helps with that lightning fast acceleration. Now, fire, under or behind the passenger compartment, that the FD doesn't have a clue how to put out. That is another kettle of air fried fish.
They had a series of stories about how the firemen are trying to learn how to put out LiON fires on our news. "Stand back and watch it burn" seems to be the current thinking if the pack is damaged and/or the disconnect devices fail. Squirting water or foam on it seems to either be ineffective or even make it worse. That is not to say a 15 gallon gasoline fire is all that easy to fight but at least they have experience in controlling that sort of thing. Either way, body work is not going to be an issue.
I thought we were talking about Hertz, not Rent-a-Wreck. With the exception of oil changes, I doubt the fleet cars get to the mileage where any of those items need to be serviced. Smog tests? IDK about all states, but here in NJ which is pretty blue and run by hippies, there are no emissions tests for new cars for the first five years.
Except that it's not true. Fleets typically sell cars when the reach
60 to 70K miles. When you buy a new car for the first 70K miles over a few years the only maintenance is oil changes, brakes, tires, air filters. And even electric cars must have a cabin air filter, so the car has to go in for that. At that point, what's the incremental cost of changing the air filter for the engine too? Not much. Oh, and you forgot the big thing that changes the value proposition, the free money that the US govt borrows and puts up to make the cars cost less.They don't have the engine to worry about, but they do have another big problem, the expensive batteries wear out.
IDK what's going on with these cars that are reaching the end of their battery life. But one option is the salvage yard. Not for the car, but to go there to get a used battery in better shape from a wreck, like is done for old cars that need a tranny or engine. A related question that I don't know the answer to is what shape the rest of an electric car is in by the time it gets to the battery failure point. With ICE cars, if it has a failing tranny, you have the issue of whether the engine and the rest of it is still in good enough shape to make rebuilding or getting a used tranny worth it. With electric cars, IDK how long the key components, eg the motors last? Will they still generally be in good condition when it needs a battery? Or is it that they will be near the end of their service life too?
So, it doesn't matter if bodywork costs three times as much and takes a year? That doesn't get factored into the costs of an electric vehicle vs ICE cars? Now, I just took a quick look at Franks post, IDK if it's accurate or not, nor if it only applies to Tesla. Fundamentally I don't see why body repair work should be significantly more expensive on an electric vehicle. But those higher costs, if accurate, are most certainly a cost of ownership. You claim electrics are lower cost because they don't have engine repair costs. Well, just like some ICE cars will unexpectedly need a new water pump, some of them will require body work and so too will some of the electric vehicles. It's part of the total cost comparisons when you fairly calculate it.
Tesla is apparently going to make cars with different driving ranges.
Avis sold the 2 cars I bought between 25k and 30k miles. They were ~18 months old. Even if Hertz doubles that on the Teslas, there is a real good chance the service will be virtually nothing but cleaning and replacing the windshield washer fluid. They might replace tires but maybe not. As long as the wear bars aren't showing, they would sell them as is.
I think electric motors will last the life of the car, thousands of hours anyway. I would worry more about the control boards and the big MOSFETs that drive the motors. I bet that is not a cheap card. As Scott points out, brakes last longer because a lot of it is done with the motors operating as generators.
Like many things on cars it cost very little for the origional part on the car,but there is a very large markup for the replacement parts.
Like a copy or replacement key for the keyless to start cars are around $ 100 . No way are they that much and then a lot just to program them.
The key thing is a good example. You can find BMW keys on Ebay for $15. I know you can re-sync a key to the vehicle for the entry system with a combination of turning the ignition on and off while holding buttons of the keys. So, you think you could buy a key, have a locksmith cut it, then sync it? Wrong. There is some deeper programming required that syncs it to the vehicle that you can't do. Turns out even the dealers can't do it. They order a new key from BMW, BMW cuts it and programs it based on vehicle ID number. And of course they charge $250. The curious thing is what's going on with those keys on Ebay? You would think if they are useless they would be getting complaints, refunded, etc and they would not be on Ebay.
That $ 250 is a big rip off. Over $ 200 of profit I bet.
I don't know that much about the workings of the electronic keys but from what I understand on some if you have a working key you can do the open the door, use your left foot to activate the right turn signal , turn the wipers on low with your mouth thing to program a new key.
However if you do not have a working key it is a dealer thing to program the keys. I have a locksmith friend and he was telling me a few things about the keys. Even his price for a 'balnk' smart key is often over $
50.
That has me worried as I know gasoline powered cars need oxygen to work and take it out of the air. In fact the weight of oxygen needed is more than that of the gasoline.
Electric cars have all that energy packed into the battery and when they burn do not need oxygen to continue burning.
You still have to factor in how much of the oxygen is consumed to make the battery, dig the chemicals out of the ground, and then where does the electricity come from . Much oxygen is used to make the wind generators and solar cells tol recharge the batteries.
The three legs of combusion are:
- Heat (i.e. a short circuit in the battery) - Fuel (Lithium et alia) - Oxidizer (Air)
Remove any one of the three, and you don't get combustion.
So, therefore, they _do_ need oxygen in some form to continue burning.
Note that the electrolyte in Lithium Ion batteries is usually a lithium salt in a carbonate solvent (newer designs have a ceramic solid electrolyte, primarily lithium oxide. Research is showing that replacing the oxide in a solid electrolyte with sulfer improves battery performance).
I have nothing against electric cars but I think their use should not be legislated. Politicians do not have the knowledge to consider all the factors involved as you mention.
If it is like most cars, there are a lot of locksmiths who can program those keys but it still isn't cheap.
All that energy (heat) is still there in the battery and when it goes into thermal runaway it would continue in the vacuum of space. Spraying water on it is likely to make it worse.
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