LED bulbs not so bad

We are all electric (lighting, heating, hot water, cooking, laundry, etc.). We currently average about 30-40 kwh/day in the summer and 60-70 kwh/day in the winter.

We have a mild climate so we don't need air conditioning during the summer.

Our kitchen stove, laundry, and wood working tools use a lot of power, but they're on for such short lengths of time they don't really add much to our bill.

Electric heat is our biggest energy user during the winter. Otherwise our well pump and hot water heater are probably the worst offenders.

We're on an equal pay plan for $149 a month. With our usage going down our balance is getting rather high, so the power company will probably lower our monthly rate in a few months.

We're in the forest surrounded by hills and trees. Minimal sunlight would make solar panels useless, and the trees block most of the wind for wind power. The power company is really our only option, short of installing a generator.

Anthony Watson

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Reply to
HerHusband
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We only notice this on the dimmable CFL floods. It tends to be pretty warm here, most of the time (and, esp so, indoors!) Garage is the only significant semi-outdoor site and it has tubular fluorescents, presently; incandescents on the porches...

I doubt we've seen 3 years on most of ours! They give up the ghost pretty quickly, IME. I can reach those in the cans for 8 ft ceilings "on my toes" but the higher ceilings mean taking out a stepladder.

We've been slow to move to LEDs throughout simply because of the bad experiences (lifespan) with the CFL's. Were it not for the big subsidies, I'm sure there would have been *no* savings, there!

And, the LED lamps aren't (yet?) heavily subsidized -- esp the dimmable floods (which would account for probably 30% of our lamps). IIRC, the

60 eq W floods were something like $13/pair? Buying them in lots of 10 (e.g., a room at a time) would get costly!
Reply to
Don Y

I've noticed many of our fluorescent bulbs start getting dimmer as they age too, particularly the smaller undercabinet lights. I don't really notice it until I have to install a new bulb and see what a difference the new bulb makes compared to the other old ones.

I just replaced a couple of 24" undercabinet fluorescent fixtures with four

12" LED fixtures from LightKiwi. They use half the power (12 watts instead of 24 watts) and put out way more light. Instant on, no fading, and dimmable. The only real negative was the cost.

Anthony Watson

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Reply to
HerHusband

The same can probably be true of LED lamps -- its in the nature of the ballast (though moreso for the CFL's as they have a step-up converter excited at a higher frequency to keep the magnetics small)

Yup. Refrigerator is a big pig. Here, ACbrrr accounts for about half of our summer load (which is double the winter load).

Some (new-ish) TV's are also surprising hogs! And, many devices only

*appear* to be "sleeping"/off when, in reality, they're just "dark, but waiting".

Wall warts use some power even if the device with which they are associated is "off". Chargers, etc.

I have at least two computers running at all times -- plus 4 monitors. Often, I'll add two or three more machines to the mix, depending on what I'm doing -- some of those being servers that make no attempt to "save energy" (their goal is to "save BITS")

[And, of course, the light in the refrigerator -- that we all KNOW is secretly ON even while the door is closed! :> ]

I'm fond of flashlights that I can hang/mount in specific places. E.g., we have a pair of maglites mounted near front/rear entryways; a tiny "penlight" maglight hanging from a teacup hook next to the network switch in my office; an HF "area light" hanging under another workbench; etc. It's easier to just remember where their individual homes are than to run around wondering where you've left it, last!

Reply to
Don Y

Given time, they'll also shift a bit towards the red/pink. But, I suspect the ballasts will crap out long before that! Any time you try to cram a fair bit of power switching electronics in a small, enclosed container sited in a location that won't naturally lend itself to cooling, you know you're just counting the hours to failure.

[I think it is outright fraud that they claim these things will last 85 gazillion hours -- and base their ROI analysis on those inflated figures -- when the components are often spec'd for a few *thousand* hours!]

It's only money, right? :> Send it off to China or send it to your own "local" utility...

Reply to
Don Y

The sequential controller was interlinked to the emergency flashers and the brake lights. You could isolate some problems by going through the drill of turning on the signal, then the headlights, hitting the brake pedal and then trying the emergency flashers.

Nowadays all that would be interfaced with the car's main computer which would just add to the complexity. I rode in a late model car yesterday that tracked when you crossed a highway line or approached too quickly. I can't imagine the complexity that adds to a car, especially if it brakes automatically as well.

I once had an "anti-creep" system on an old Jag sedan - kept pressure applied to the power brakes when idling. It worked great if the engine kept running but it was an old Jag and the engine would *always* stall for some reason or another (Solex carbs and Lucas electrical eq. being two). A fellow Jag owner stepped out of his on a hill and when the engine died and vacuum pressure was lost, so was the car!

Reply to
Robert Green

Frank,

Did you get a daylight bulb instead of a warm white bulb? Probably just the wrong color temperature.

Thankfully, I've never had a CFL that hummed.

For lights that are only used briefly (closets, etc.), switching to CFL or LED is probably not going to make a noticeable difference in electric usage.

However, I work from home and have several lights that are on 14-16 hours a day. While that is still a small portion of my total electric bill, I do notice a difference in our electric usage. There's not a lot I can do to reduce the energy consumption of our heaters and hot water (already maxed out on insulation), but changing lights is an easy thing to do.

Still, considering the cost of LED bulbs, I'm sure it would take a very long time to pay off financially. I'm switching mostly for the better lighting. Energy savings is just an added bonus.

Yep, same here. Much brighter light and the batteries last a very long time.

Anthony Watson

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Reply to
HerHusband

We use an under counter light as a nightlight. Even during the day. in

50 years and two houses, the only time it is turned off is when it burns out.

The cheap 15" fluorescent would last a couple of years and I could buy a new fixture for about a dollar more than the bulb. About two years ago I upgraded to and LED. It was costly, but I hope to get many years from it.

Reply to
Ed Pawlowski

Two neighbors are "all electric". At one point, had separate metering for heat but that tariff got changed, recently -- much to their chagrin. Extending the gas line through ~50 ft of roadway and then up to their homes is prohibitively expensive.

We have, on average, 65 days above 100F. I can recall 99 of them in one year. The times when ACbrr is most welcome (Monsoon) the temperatures moderate (closer to 100 than 110) but the humidity goes up. So, the ACbrrr acts as a giant dehumidifier.

The dry portions of the year (Summer) we could be very comfortable with the swamp cooler -- even, at 115-ish outdoors -- but it uses a fair bit of power (6500CFM blower that is essentially on, forever to achieve the desired effect) *and* a lot of water!

We only use the stove top (burners) nowadays. Anything that would be done in the oven is handled by a countertop convection (baking a potato, making a steak, etc.) or the mmicrowave (heating up marinara sauce, defrosting items, etc.). The big exception is baking; I bake at least once every two weeks. And, over the holidays, can easily heat the kitchen with just the surplus heat from the oven! :<

Your heat load plays the role of our cooling load.

I don't think our bills ever get down to $100 -- even on the "off months". There are just too many fixed fees and taxes that set a lower limit on what you realistically can expect to pay.

Clear skies, here. I can count the number of trees that are taller than

15-20 feet within several blocks of the house on two hands. And, many of those are palm trees (no shadow).

I was interested in a (commercial) Stirling engine solar generation project many years ago but it never got off the ground. I would have gladly accepted a prototype unit as payment for my services! :> (then, have to argue with the tax man over its "value")

My present concerns are more regarding water than power/gas. As it gets harder to acquire/use, the lifestyle consequences are significant. I'd like to defer that inevitability as long as possible!

(sigh)

[Back to my snail-mail correspondence...]
Reply to
Don Y

You could make an aftermarket device that just "watched" the signals on the brake and turn-signal wires (i.e., as if *it* was the brake light and turn signal light). Then, with this "information", deduce how to drive the LED array.

The bigger problem would be physically hacking the array to gain electrical access to each of the individual emitters.

Yes. I mentioned elsewhere my experience with such a system overheating in our warm sunny days. As I understand it, there's a camera that watches the roadway (lane markers) to detect if you are maintaining your lane or deviating. Presumably, it takes cues from your turn signals to know when you *intend* to change lanes (?). Forward looking "radar" (it may actually be ultrasonic?) watches the objects ahead of you to detect when you are approaching them (relativisticly speaking... they may, instead, be approaching *you*! :> ) to throttle back the cruise control setting, and/or brake. Volvo has a system for "in city" driving (vs. highway driving) that claims to brake for pedestrian traffic, etc.

We were wary of tying that sort of technology into the actual CONTROL of the vehicle. So, opted only for *advisory* technologies: one watches the blind spots to the left and right rear of the vehicle and alerts when another vehicle is in those (but only when you are in motion, no notice when "parked at a light") and additionally alarms if you turn on the turn signal suggesting you are planning on moving into conflict with one of those vehicles; another watches to the sides behind the vehicle when you are backing up (like exiting a nose-in parking space) to alert you to cars approaching from the sides -- "cross-traffic".

But, you can readily ignore their advice (which may be in error!). I'm not sure I would trust the vehicle to actually change how/if it can be driven in situations that it might misinterpret!

Many cars now have a feature like that (electronically driven) to assist in similar situations. I suspect they are well-intended -- even if it is only the opinion of the Marketeers driving them.

OTOH, I think there are simpler tweeks that can be made to improve the usability of much of this kit -- without getting as actively involved in the control of the vehicle.

One peeve is the naivite of the navigation system(s)... if I've put my left turn signal ON, doesn't that suggest that I *know* I will be turning LEFT, soon? Why follow that with the announcement "Turn left, ahead, in 1/4 mile"? No need for *it* to make the turn FOR me; just don't nag me needlessly if, by observing my actions, you can ddeduce that I already know something about which you are about to pester me! (you're already interrupting the display on one of the monitors to SHOW me this information, now you want to make SURE I noticed it?? By ducking the audio to which I happen to be listening??)

Freeze warning. Guess I'll have to prepare the citrus trees...

Reply to
Don Y

When I rebuilt my computer, low noise and energy usage were big priorities for me. I now have an i7-4790K, with two hard drives, and two SSD's. Most of the time my entire system uses around 80 watts, including the monitor, cable modem, and router. It can jump up to 130 watts or so when doing heavy processing, but drops to around 60 watts at night.

I have a UPS that makes it easy to monitor the power usage.

I have an LED lantern that runs on four D-cells, same battery for over four years now. Also have a couple of handheld LED flashlights.

For emergency power I have several of these LED power outage lights:

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They're always charged up and come on automatically when the power goes out. We can also unplug them and use them as flashlights around the house when needed.

Anthony Watson

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Reply to
HerHusband

I don't have that choice for at least two of my computers: a Sun Ultra 60 and an Sun Blade 2000. The processors (as in "chips") don't come in low power versions (I think each of the two "CPU's" draws 50W!). ISTR the U60 runs at about 200W (actual) while the SB2000 is closer to 300W. Of course, spinning up either of the 12 disk "shelf" on either adds another 150W... The software that runs on these simply won't run on anything other than a SPARC "CPU". I can afford a LOT of electricity to offset the effort it would take me to migrate away from them! :>

Three LCD's on each machine add another 150W.

This "email/WWW" machine is relatively low power -- but still close to

200W when you add in the power consumed by the monitor.

The box that provides my core network services (TFTP/DNS/NTP/xfs/etc.) draws only about 9W. It's tucked under a dresser and is never off. A tiny UPS can keep it running almost indefinitely!

I have several 1U and 2U servers with dedicated functions. E.g., one acts as the repository for "everything" -- so I can step back in time and recreate a project at any point in its development/production lifetime (including the tools that were used to develop/maintain it!). Another just "serves up" VM's of older system images (again, so I can step back in time and work in an environment that existed "back then" without having to keep a real PC around in exactly that configuration... indefinitely!)

There are three windows machines (everything mentioned thus far is NOT windows) that act as my Multimedia, Engineering and Publishing workstations. Splitting the functions in this way lets me distribute the required peripherals across the different machines AND "work areas"! (it's just not possible to cram all of the required peripherals in a single place and have them all accessible to me seated in a chair). E.g., the Multimedia system has devices to capture and record production quality audio and video (e.g., studio microphones, etc.); the Engineering workstation has tools to let me design and manipulate 3D mechanical and electronic devices; the Publishing workstation lets me create documents to describe each of these other activities (including illustrations, photos, animations, etc.).

These three boxes could benefit from modern upgrades. But, the time that it takes to reinstall and reconfigure all of the software (and hardware) is insane! Weeks for each machine! And, that assumes the software and hardware will be compatible with that "upgraded machine"! Anything lost in the process represents time and money (to buy upgrades, new licenses, etc.) that I can just as easily spend on electricity :-/

An HTPC sits in the living room in place of a consumer DVD player and DVR. It's not on all the time so dubious as to how much I'd save moving it to a newer platform (again, everything takes time; time is actually money, in my case)

A Blade Server spends sees only infrequent use -- it draws a few thousand watts (I think there are 28 physical CPU's in it, 28 small disk drives, 60+ GB of RAM, etc.). I think the fans (two redundant "blowers") probably draw close to 50W!

So, we just live with the less-than-optimal power profiles.

I have a *CFL* lantern that runs on 8D's. It's actually an interesting design: it looks like an oversized flashlight (4" reflector). You can clearly see the CFL in the center.

But, if you pull the lens *forward*, the lantern gets LONGER (the CFL remains in the same place) and the sides of the lantern are clear plastic. So, you can set it, lens down, on a table and turn it into a "table lamp".

But, it eats batteries. Unfortunately, replacing the alkalines with a rechargeable chemistry (NiCd, NiMH) leaves it operating at a lower voltage (8*1.2V instead of 8*1.5V). And, getting D cell rechargeables is expensive (not to be confused with AA cells in D-sized sleeves!)

We had something similar (in principle). Looked more like a flashlight, though. While plugged in, it had an EL panel exposed that acted as a nightlight (really only useful for locating the flashlight in the dark).

But, it had a silly charging circuit that ate batteries... (overcharged them)

In an outage, I just plug a table lamp (with a CFL) into a UPS. It will run for half a day drawing ~15W (i.e., long enough to make it to sun-up). If push comes to shove, turn on genset.

Reply to
Don Y

I am shocked you don't have an automatic anti-citrus freeze robotic mister, mister!

Reply to
Robert Green

The electric co-op sent out a big box of assorted CFLs, everything from candleabras on up and used the USPS. I don't think they let the Post Office in on the secret that they were going t be deluged with a few thousand big parcels.

I already was using CFLs so I asked a friend if he could use some. He said yes so I took the box back to the PO to mail it over. The nice lady behind the counter said "Oh, shit, let me just guess what that is." They were pretty sick of them, particularly the rural contract carriers that had to stuff a hundred or so into their cars.

This time around it was 2 60w equivalent LEDs, a low flow shower head, in a much smaller box that came by UPS.

Reply to
rbowman

The system is designed for that. The normal (high flow rate) irrigation "outlets"/emitters for the citrus trees feed upright plumbing (installed in the winter months) on which misting nozzles are attached.

But, until I get the last three hose bibbs plumbed, I can't turn on the water in that distribution line.

Also, misting is a last resort -- when it gets WELL below the 28F that the fruit can safely tolerate. Our "defense" is layered based on the conditions.

Tonight it may touch 28 or 29 -- for a *brief* period. Deep watering helps trap heat in the soil beneath the trees. And, helps them "rehydrate" to be better prepared for the assault. The large trees will shrug off this sort of minor cold spell. The younger/smaller trees need some extra protection.

If this was later in the season, we'd harvest the topmost fruit "early" rather than risk them freezing. The lower hanging fruit will tend to fare better as they are less exposed and can benefit from some of the latent heat in the soil (assuming it hasn't been cold for MANY days!)

We string XMAS lights (7W incandescents) in the trees to help prevent cold air from settling on the leaves/fruit. It's just enough of a convective flow that it buys a little more protection. Depending on the actual temperature, those are illuminated -- or not. (the yard looks quite festive when they are lit!)

[I've not been able to find a suitable *fan* that can be used outdoors and in the rain -- as it often rains at this time of year]

We also cover some of the trees (esp the young/small ones) with bed sheets wrapped around teepees made from 10' chain-link fence rails. We can erect a teepee and have it "skinned" in a matter of minutes. But, if we wait too late in the day, the pipes (rails) get pretty cold and can be uncomfortable to handle.

With the lights under the sheets, this buys even more protection.

When we expect really cold weather and for many consecutive days, the trees need to be misted -- coated in ice to help protect the wood of the tree. This is really hard on the tree -- it will lose all of its foliage in the process. And, not a guaranteed remedy.

A few years back, we had a spell of ~5 days when the nights were in the mid teens and daytime highs never left the 30's. I coated the trees every few hours throughout the night. But, was unable to save the lemon, lime and blood orange (though the navel and valencia survived as a result of the effort).

We deliberately selected the four replacement trees to be smaller varieties (with citrus, the size of the tree is determined by the root-stock onto which the tree is grafted; the root stock acts as a sort of throttle on nutrient uptake so the same variety of tree grafted on one root stock will be large -- or smaller -- than when grafted to another root stock). So, we will be better equipped to protect them in similar cold spells.

[E.g., the blood orange required a sheet made of *4* king size bed sheets sewn together, edge to edge, to cover the tree entirely. And, of course, covered it can't be misted! With the smaller variety trees, we can target them with single -- or perhaps dual -- sheets; much easier to manhandle than the giant TENTS for the larger trees!]

I conveniently knocked one of the navels off the tree while stringing lights. So, I'll coerce SWMBO into tasting it to see the risk/value of harvesting it early -- in case that proves to be a necessary option. (Personally, I don't like oranges! Though delighted in the juice from the blood orange!)

Reply to
Don Y

It's 1 degree F out there this morning. My lemons are frozen.

Reply to
rbowman

Ick! Why didn't you pick them, first? Even premature, SOUR lemons are better than FROZEN ones! :> (I'm surprised you have citrus that far north -- Montana, IIRC? I'd imagine apples would be the norm!)

We appear to have just skirted the magical 28F so I suspect the exposed fruit fared OK. We tented (teepee'd?) three of the trees last night so they definitely are OK. The lemon and lime are bracketed by masonary walls which should have stored some heat from the daytime temps. The big Navel got the XMAS light treatment. And, the Valencia seems to fare well "exposed" -- possibly due to it's size/mass.

Pro'ly add some more lights to the Navel if SWMBO claims the fruit isn't ripe enough to pick. But, imagine tonight will be marginally warmer than last night. And, the next night warmer still!

Lemon already has blossoms and some fruit started. Definitely "confused" as to the season! :< No problem, it will bloom again in Spring.

Neighbor's pomegranate's are dropping from the cold. He should have picked them long ago (AFAICT, he never harvests the fruit, just keeps watering the trees! What a waste...)

Frigging trees are far more trouble than they're worth! OTOH, SWMBO gets a year of juice out of them and "fresh" fruit through June. Question I always have to ask is how much "grief" I want to endure to make her happy... so far, the calculus has come out in her favor. Not sure if that will continue as I get older and find the protection effort growing more difficult/tedious!

Reply to
Don Y

Don Y posted for all of us...

It takes steering wheel angle into consideration.

Not in my experience.

Reply to
Tekkie®

Meaning you have to turn the wheel and start to exit the lane BEFORE you accelerate (and approach the vehicle in front of you)?

So, it doesn't work?

Reply to
Don Y

Sometimes, the trouble doesn't add up in their favor, BUT we still spot them 50 points so it will. :)

Reply to
Muggles

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