HOA says no pickup trucks in driveway

[cshenk]

"Scott" wrote

Same here. No HOA and none needed. Local Neighborhood association (not the same but serves us well) to help out folks. 100% voluntary.

[cshenk]

"Too_Many_Tools" wrote

That would be me. I would never willing buy into a community with an HOA. Far too subject to abuse by nitpicking neighbors with nothing better to do than watch my grass grow too much in 5 days to suit them before the weekly cutting.

[Plebe]

On Sat 20 Dec 2008 10:34:03a, Scott told us...

You are fortunate. What you describe is certainly reasonable and acceptable.

[Plebe]

On Sat 20 Dec 2008 01:07:59p, cshenk told us...

That sounds like a good idea!

[Plebe]

On Sat 20 Dec 2008 11:49:50a, ktos told us...

Been there. Not a problem. Would do it again.

[Wayne Boatwright]

On Sat 20 Dec 2008 11:08:52a, Too_Many_Tools told us...

"controlled

I can't argue with those rights, until someone else's lifestyle is imposed on mine.

I totally agree.

[Wayne Boatwright]

On Sat 20 Dec 2008 11:14:07a, Too_Many_Tools told us...

"controlled

Not exactly. While it was obvious there were a few properties not quite "up to standard", we purchased the land in the middle of winter. Yards were not so much in disarray and few vehicles around, as many people were not at home. The true nature wasn't obvious.

We don't have an HOA here, and there are no vacant homes nor any up for sale. As far as I know, there are none presently owned by banks.

[mm]

We don't need that kind of people. They have a half hour to get out of town.

[mm]

What happens if the market is low, like now, and someone wants to move? While the people staying don't want the apartment to be rented, when they are in that situation, ready to move, retire, have to go to assisted living, they may not like it when the rule impacts them.

I will agree that rental units are often not well taken care of, but otoh if the price is low and that's the only reason the buyer can afford to buy, that can be bad too.

Of the 110 houses in my 30 year old HOA, I think 15 or 20 are rentals now and about 10 or 15 of them are owned by those who once lived here, and most are in as good a condition as those resident owned. Of course things vary widely.

That was probably illegal. Do you need certificates of occupancy where you live? Did he have a C of O for two families?

Long before Barack Obama got to Hyde Park/Kenwood in Chicago, it was a beuatiful neighborhood that was on the brink of being ruined by a combination of speculators and people who could no longer afford to live in their entire homes subdividing homes illegally to make room for one or two more families. The n'hood got organized.

One of the tools they used to stop this was getting members of the HPKCC, Hyde Park-Kenwood Community Conference to keep on the look-out for plumbing trucks. Of course some people need plumbing repairs, but if the truck was there for more than an hour, it was likely a conversion, and that always meant an illegal conversion. Then someone would call the building inspector, and I think in the 50's and early 60's that have to hound him because he was often in on it.

Another tool was the House Tour. There are loads of these around th ecountry now, but I think they originated in Hyde Park and Kenwood. It's not just about pride and bragging. The purpose was to show how beautiful the houses are inside so that people with money will buy one in the area. Even where the houses aren't as fancy as the ones in Kenwood, they are often much better than one's unseeing guess.

Anyhow, preventing illegal conversions and the other projects of the HPKCC is why the n'hood looks as nice now as it did 50 and 80 years ago. I'm not sure when the houses were built.

I used to live in Hyde Park, the part south of 51st St. In the dorm, the fraternity, and two years sharing an apartment with friends. Just a 2-bedroom with living room, dining room, large pantry, and sunporch. Very common in Chicago.

[mm]

At least some proposals for mortgage aid are designed to exclude investment properties. Sometimes it's hard to write a law that does a good job targeting the intended target. But certainly it would require that the owner reside in the property.

BTW, I know that Bush and Paulson deserve some of the blame for giving money to banks which then didn't lend it to anyone (but bought other banks or paid dividends with it) but does the Congress deserve blame too. Were the restrictions supposed to be in the law, or in the contracts drawn up by the executive branch to implement the law?

[mm]

On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 19:41:16 -0500, "Sanity" wrote:

If we are still talking about the original case posted, and even if we're not, here's some more information about that case from another forum. I'm neither of the people discussing this.

My quote starts with the actual court decision, which was given I think as a link in the news story:

---Start quote---

I'll be quoting from it, as it demonstrates a very common behavior typical of the arrogant, out of control HOAs in operation these days, which often disregard their own by-laws, remain in office while refusing to hold elections, and purport to change the rules of the HOA, without following the rules of the Association.

That is exactly what happened here.

Actually, this is in dispute, and the dispute was resolved in favor of Vizzi. The Vizzis only received a "Windsor Park Declaration" relating to the specific sub-part of the community they lived in, and allege that they never received a copy of the "Eagles Master Declaration," a document covering the larger set of communities, years after their purchase. This is, sadly, all too common.

This was found by the court in this case to be undisputed. Therefore, they were not on notice.

The rules he bought into were the ones he was actually provided a copy of and upon which he conditioned his purchase of the home. ... Incidentally, it is NOT the HOA in charge of Windsor Park Association, where he lives, which is attempting to enforce this agreement against him. It is an upper level HOA, in charge of the entire set of communities, which is attempting to enforce it against him.

His actual neighbors have no complaint. ... in this case, there were two separate documents, both contracts. The purchaser was only provided with one. The other was only provided years later, and only years after that did they attempt to enforce it against him. There's a very real question of detrimental reliance on their inaction, even had the purchaser ever agreed to the Eagles Master Declaration in the first place, which he didn't. ... The only rule to which the homeowner had agreed was in the Windsor Park agreement, which only prohibited parking vehicles in the driveway which are "primarily used for commercial purposes." It said nothing about pick-up trucks. The Eagles Declaration, the one that was never provided to the homeowner, did list pick-up trucks as impermissible. The Eagles Declaration also arguably forbids trucks in general from being parked in driveways. If this were true, then all the residents would be forced to get rid of their SUVs, which are, apparently, also considered legally to be "trucks." A fine kettle of fish that would be. ... This isn't all. Even if the contract in question were enforceable against this homeowner, there are doubts as to whether the officers of the homeowner association in question were even duly elected. If they were not duly elected, they have no business issuing fines or enforcing rules against anyone. The plaintiff homeowner alleges that the board has failed to hold elections at all, as required by the bylaws, and that therefore, the current holdover board has no legal right to hold office. This part of the suit is stayed pending administrative proceedings on the same issue.

--- end quote ---

[mm]

Abiding by the terms are mandatory. In Maryland at the very least there is no method of signing an agreement, at least for some HOAs, but I'll bet all. A well organized HOA might want to make sure that all prospective buyers knew there were covenants on the land, but the seller would often want them not to know, depending on whether a buyer would be happy with such covenants or unhappy to have them.

(My seller was afaict scrupulously honest, and he didn't say a word. I don't know why not. It might have slippped his mind and I didn't think to ask. Nor did his real estate agent tell me, but they may have violated real estate law when I wanted to make an offer but they said he wouldn't be interested. I should have insisted, because the law required them to relay good-faith offers.)

And even if a state had an agreement, and somehow a buyer never signed it, the conditions go with the land and are binding whether he signed them or not, unless the owner can show that he didsn't know and needn't have known about the terms. That's hard to show. In other long post today by me, it turns out in the OP the owner knew about and agreed to his local n'hhood's terms and had no reason to think there were additional terms by a higher level HOA that his own local HOA was a member of. How could he know there were two sets of documents?

I agree with you here. The problem is in people more than the form of government. That's why "checks and balances" are so important, why each part of government being subject to investigation or overruling by others is important.

A corrupt or badly informed HOA doesn't have much of that, except in the civil courts, wyhich can be very expensive about cases which are often "not that important".

[RobertPatrick]

mm wrote in news: [e-mail]:

LOL. Maybe they'll go on a rampage and drive over the perfect lawns on their way out.

[cshenk]

"Plebe" wrote

It is. I posted a longer note on it, but it's just a bunch of neighbors and an email list (voluntary) where you ask for help with various things or arrange to borrow tools.

There's about 8 kids (15-17 in age) who cut yards for 10$ (small city plots, you provide gas). Stuff like that. A one time group deal with a roofer (just for those who wanted in).

Simple and sane.

[Too_Many_Tools]

The Congress "trusted" the White House with the money...just like they did with the vote for Iraq.

The problems of the money being misused in each case lies squarely with the White House.

TMT

[Phisherman]

When I asked to see the HOA rules and accouonting sheet, I saw that

15% of the people were not paying the required monthly dues. Some owed over $3400. I guess if enough people decide not to pay, the HOA would be gone. But its best to look elsewhere to buy a house.

[none]

I wanted to add my bit on Home Associations as I just finished a battle to get our street exempt from a newly forming Association. Here are some facts if you are interested. Keep in mind that these facts may change from state to state.

When you are buying a home the realtor pretty much tells you anything to get you to buy. We had a situation that the realtors were telling buyers that the HA was defunct. When closing came, There were unpaid dues and they had to be settled before the closing could continue. Most HA will enter a lean on a home for unpaid dues but will wait for the sale of the house to collect. Always check with a title company to make sure there is/ is not a HA involved with your home.

Most HA have to be registered with the Secretary of State. You can check online to see if they are current.

When fighting with a HA the one thing to remember is that very few homeowners attend meetings. They are too busy to attend most of the time. If your going to fight with them make sure you attend the meetings and then go visit your neighbors and get a proxy vote for those that will not be attending. We did this and the look on the association when voting was priceless. We stopped them dead and forced them (by vote) to do things our way.

You should be current on what the bylaws/covenants are. Especially the Operating laws of the Association.

Just remember that an association's main purpose is to protect the property value of your home. Most laws are guilded towards that purpose. Examples are: No trucks over a certain weight parked on properties, Decorations and house color options, Swimming pools, ect..

Personally, I dont care at all for associations. Anyone can pretty much obtain the same benefits by keeping a good relation with your neighbors.

For the most part, Once you buy a home in a HA you are locked in until you sell the home. Your pretty much not going to get out unless you find some circumstances like - The HA let their Sect. of State yearly paperwork slide and get dissolved by the state.

DF

[Sam E]

[snip]

Most of them do something much stupider...

[snip]

[RobertPatrick]

Sam E wrote in news: [e-mail]:

That's what our town hall will make residents do. I believe one vehicle is allowed with writing provided it's also for personal use. If there is a second vechicle they make you remove the sign or cover it up.