Basic advice for an oven bake element house fire (GE JBP24B0B4WH)

Hi, Why don't you just read the wiring diagram stuck on the back of oven?

Reply to
Tony Hwang
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Donna Ohl wrote: ...

It's the self-cleaning oven temp sensor.

Just put new one in the way the old one comes out. That sensor has nothing to do w/ the broil element per se, and altho it's different than in range here so don't know for absolute certain, it may actually separate from the broil element when removed and only be mounted via the bracket...

Either way, the replacement element will just reconnect where the old one comes off.

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Reply to
dpb

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only be mounted via the bracket...>

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Looking at the photograph one more time, that's clearly so.

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Reply to
dpb

Hi Tony,

There is no wiring diagram on the back of the oven:

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But, I didn't know that until I just now asked a neighbor to help me move the destroyed oven away from the wall. He was kind enough to move it outside before having to go to work.

I was hoping there was that wiring diagram on the back of the oven but all there was was this picture.

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Notice the 3 wires on the back of the oven do not correspond at all to the

4 wires in the inside of the oven!!!!!!
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Donna
Reply to
Donna Ohl

Hi dpb,

I just uploaded a photo for you showing you are correct. This little tiny two inch heater element is totally separate from the rest of the oven.

It appears to be working off of 120 volts because two small white wires attach to it while the two big (red & black) 220v wires attach to the upper GE oven heating element.

Notice the 220v neutral wire is nowhere to be found!

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It seems that every time I take something apart to figure out how it works, I end up with more questions!

Sorry but I have to ask WHERE did the neutral for the 3-pronged 220volt circuit get hooked up?

Reply to
Donna Ohl

Hi Chris, Thank you for explaining that because it makes sense and all I'm trying to do is make sense of this simple GE Spectra oven fire.

I tried to clean up the ABC fire extinguisher powder as shown here:

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But it was such a mess that I asked a neighbor to help me move the oven outside where I doused it for 20 minutes with a garden hose as shown here:
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I'm learning all the time because, only afterward, his wife warned me I shouldn't have soaked the oven because, she said, the water will remove the insulation on the 220volt wires.

Should I take any extra precautions now that the oven was basically under water other than letting it dry out in the sun?

Reply to
Donna Ohl

Is that third copper tube a "sensor" or a short "heater element" for the self-cleaning GE Spectra JBP24B0B4 oven?

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Reply to
Donna Ohl

Ah, it's a SENSOR ... not a self-cleaning heating element. That makes sense because it seems to be made of copper or brass and not aluminum like the oven heating element was made up of.

See this picture of the broken fragile aluminum oven heating element!

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Everything I touch brings up MORE questions!

People said there was a "jacket" around the "heating element" but this aluminum jacket appears to have NOTHING inside of it (contrary to what people said)!

Reply to
Donna Ohl

if you dont replace the unit that caught on fire, when iot happens again insurance may not cover it.

replace it..

Reply to
hallerb

Donna Ohl wrote: ...

It's not a heater, it's the control sensor for the self-cleaning cycle as I indicated.

Those are control logic wires -- the sensor acts just like a switch. It isn't powered, it simply controls power.

... Of course not, 240V loads are connected across one leg to the other; otherwise there wouldn't be 240V, only 120V from one or the other hot leg to the neutral.

The neutral is connected to the wiring chassis at the location where the pigtail is connected; it's used for the various other portions of the oven that do operate off 120V like the lights, clock, etc., etc., ...

Reply to
dpb

snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote: ...

Bullpuckey...

If all that happened is the broil element failed (they all will eventually), there's no need for anything other than replacing it.

It's about a 15-minute job if you've never done one before.

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Reply to
dpb

Um, an arc is electricity jumping a GAP... and it doesn't electrocute you because you are not putting yourself in the circuit by simply touching the element. If you grabbed both sides of the gap, THEN you'd get electrocuted.

Because it wasn't drawing enough current to blow the fuse.

The plug has nothing to do with anything.

Do you really need to spaz out like this every time you have a problem? "What is it? WHAT WHAT WHAT!?!?! Can I fix it? CAN I? CAN I? CAN I?" Jeez. Calm down.

Replace the damn oven, too. If just turning off the oven didn't stop it from burning, there is something else wrong. Fix the element, and you're going to end up with the fire department in your house again, and they'll probably arrest you this time for arson.

Reply to
mkirsch1

Donna Ohl wrote: ...

Since it wasn't a fire but an electrical arc, that's not surprising.

I like others am pretty much convinced that in the panic of the moment you didn't turn off the oven so the arc just continued.

To amplify on the other questions, an arc is the passage of current across an air gap by definition--until there's a gap, there's no arc.

It happens when the first break occurs the distance between the two ends is so close air the insulating effect isn't sufficient to break the connection and some air is ionized. Once that temperature is achieved, the arc is self-sustaining as more air is ionized and those charged ions are what carry the current across the gap. The gap can (and did) continue to grow while some of the metal in the elements is melted.

In essence, one has made an AC-powered welder or arc lantern.

In general, remember that fire extinguishers are totally ineffective on electrical fires as they are fueled by the electrical source not a combustion source. So, don't try that again.

Also, while easy to say, don't panic and be sure it's actually the oven control you're dealing with not the heat setting or something else and the switch is actually off. Second, just go to the breaker panel and throw the breaker for the range. You should know precisely where it is and which one is the range; if not, that's your next exercise to go find it and make sure it's well marked.

As for the replacement element, I'm sure there are elements available; I have a nearly 30-yr old GE and elements are still available for it. I've used these folks w/ satisfaction...

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Looking, I think you've a typo in the model number is a large part of your problem -- I'm guessing it's actually JBP24BB4WH and the broil element would be

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although you'll want to check for sure on the model, dimensions, etc. This one does show the mid-mount clean cycle sensor at least.

Of course, you could simply go down to your local appliance dealer and pick up one, too...

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Reply to
dpb

The best reply in this thread!

I'll add: Take the old element (and pieces of same) to compare to replacement unit. AND: Identify and label ALL breakers in the box!

I've often found it easier to remove the metal access panel on the back of the appliance to disconnect/reconnect the oven elements, since there's often not enough slack in the wires.

Reply to
PanHandler

Donna Ohl wrote: ...

You just can't see it in the damaged state. Clean up and polish and end back to where it doesn't have the damage and inspect that end w/ a magnifying glass and you _might_ find it.

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talks about about resistance heaters in general -- the oven elements are basically calrods -- the actual resistance element is quite small and as this article notes, probably Nichrome. I've not tried to dissect one or polish an end as mentioned above so I don't know just what the size of the wire is but it'll be pretty fine. The rest of the element is essentially there for support for the heater itself.

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Reply to
dpb

PanHandler wrote: ...

Thanks, seemed like _some_ common sense was called for... :)

good advice as well...

W/ GE, I've never had a problem w/ there not being plenty of slack in the front and at least w/ the current oven there's no actual access to the element from the rear w/o moving other stuff as well (it is one w/ the combination microwave in the oven as well, though).

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Reply to
dpb

The (usually white) insulator surrounding the resistance element may also be visible on close inspection.

Reply to
PanHandler

PanHandler wrote: ...

And, I should have noted what Donna thought was "nothing" inside is actually that the element is embedded in the insulator wrapped around the element which is likely structural tubing w/ a hollow insulator iinstead of being a straight wire in a solid rod. IOW, what she thought was a flaw is the way the element is manufactured. This, of course, provides much better heat transfer and faster response owing to less thermal inertia contained in the element (as opposed to the bulky "eyes" that are more thermally massive by design).

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Reply to
dpb

Hi dpb,

That is VERY interesting! I am going to take the element apart once the replacement part arrives and the comparison checks out.

As always, I'll try to document everything thoroughly because I was trained to give as much as I get back in return.

At this point, the oven is dried out (mostly) and just waiting for the new element to arrive from UPS. The only problem left is that the door glass has ABC powder INSIDE of it ...... I have to figure out how that got in there in order to get rid of it.

Do you thing the excess nitrogen gas given off when that door glass heats up the first time will cause any problem?

Thanks, Donna

Reply to
Donna Ohl

Hi Smitty Two,

I'm sorry if I offended you by posting about a dozen annotated pictures so that people could help me. And, I'm sorry that asking a handful of questions about an oven repair offends you in this home-repair newsgroup.

I'm not sure why you bothered to respond, since you offered no help, but, you deserve the courtesy of a response and I just want to let you know I read what you posted about me and you are entitled to your opinion - and I appreciate your taking the time to state it publically.

Thank you, Donna

Reply to
Donna Ohl

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