3 months in a cave versus drowning, or close to it.

[micky]

An early effort for me was somewhere south of Cocoa Beach, Fl. An inlet between barrier islands. Not much to look at but close by.

But I planned it to go when the tide was coming in, so I wouldn't be washed out to see.

It was fast and scarey.

Later I went to the area between the island and mainland and when I came out I had some big slug** in my ear. With a friend but I didn't trust her to get it out. Drove to a nearby location and went swimming again, and it left.

**I couldn't see it but that's what I imagined.

[micky]

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That is, the current is outbound, not inbound (most of the time?), which should help them leave.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Yes, six hours in but 5 hours out according to the news.

[micky]

Well, that's sumpin'.

Supposedly these kids are normally strong, soccer players, bicycle riders. I wonder what the effect of barely eating for 10 days followed by whatever they've been doing for 3 or 4. They were giving them energy pills or something. If they're at 90% strength, I'd want to try to get out. If 50%, I'd be too scared. But I've never gone more than a day without food and I have no idea what 10 days would do.

[Ralph Mowery]

I have not kept up with this, but hs anyone mentioned drillling a hole dwon to them and pulling them out that way like some miners were resqued several years back. Could it be they are too far down ?

[gfretwell]

2600 feet or so seems to be the closest point.

[gfretwell]

I am not sure why you believe that. I started diving back in the days when the only requirement was watching a season of Sea Hunt and having $100 to buy a tank and regulator. My dive buddy could not swim across the pool and we were in open water in the Keys. My grand daughter figured out how to use a regulator when she was 8. They are going to stick a regulator in the kids mouth, hooked to a very long hose and pull them through the submerged pools in the cave on a rope. If they are scared, tell them to keep their eyes closed. Compared to sitting in that cave for months waiting for them to drill a hole down from the top big enough for a rescue cage, a few relatively short dives would seem a lot better to me. There is also the possibility that if they poke a hole in the top of that pocket, it might fill completely with water.

[trader_4]

IDK on what basis you conclude that it's just short dives. I've seen stories that say there is about 2.5 miles of flooded cave blocking them and also that there are heavy currents. How much is flooded changes I guess depending on the current rain and pumping. And regardless of what you tell anyone, especially inexperienced kids that have already been through an ordeal, if they panic with nowhere to surface, it isn't likely to end well. I agree for a casual diving experience, it doesn't take much, they do it every day with novices that get 15 mins of instruction at resorts. But those are mostly beech dives, where you're only 15 feet down, visibility is excellent, you know which way is up and down and you know that air is not far if you need to bail and the diver that's with you can get you to the surface in a minute.

A big question I haven't seen addressed is if they know for sure that there is an area that the water can't reach if they stay until Oct. Unless they do, that option has to be ruled out, because last thing they need is to have to do the scuba mission later in an emergency when the flooding, currents, etc will be even worse.

[trader_4]

Here's something I just found that describes it better:

According to the Times, the two civilian divers from England, finally had a breakthrough, literally, when they chipped away at rocks and enlarged a passageway that had been too small to pass through while wearing an air tank.

Once they had created a large enough opening, they were able to push on to where they suspected the group was, roughly three miles from the cave entrance.

If the water levels do rise, the boys and the coach might have to swim and dive the 2.5 miles to the mouth of the cave, with the help of divers who would guide them out.

The Guardian reports that they have begun learning how to dive, but are still too weak to make the whole journey. It currently takes the experienced divers five hours to make that journey due to high currents, poor visibility, and narrow, muddy paths.

[trader_4]

This has an excellent diagram showing the cave, passages, where the water is, etc:

[gfretwell]

A good part of that trip is dry if the diagrams I see on TV are right. The kid will be going at the speed they pull him.

[gfretwell]

I am onl;y going on the pictures I see on TV. They show flooded areas and dry areas as the cave goes up and down. I do think the longer they wait, the more danger they will risk. I would also worry that drilling into there might release the captive air and allow the whole cave to flood. It might just be the air that is holding the water back. I wonder if they did pump more air in there if they would push some of the water out tho. At that point compression might be an issue tho. When they did that in the coffer dams for the Brooklyn Bridge, they lost several workers to the bends.

[gfretwell]

That picture shows exactly what I am saying. There are only a few pools where you are actually underwater. I would not be screwing with tanks at all for the kids. I would have them on hookah hoses. Then the only equipment they carry is a regulator and some kind of harness to connect the rope you pull them through with. Stage large tanks on the dry spots to feed the hoses and do it in relays.

[micky]

This doesn't just give a diagram. It says that one of the rescuers died early this morning from lack of air. It's not clear but he was in the act of bringing air tanks to some places in the cave.

I thought today might be the day they left, to avoid coming rain, but a a video from CNN says they're not strong enough yet.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Looking at that, it is going to a tough rescue. OTOH, how the hell did they git in there and why? I'd have backed out at 20 yards or so.

[micky]

A few days ago on some news/talk show, someone read a letter asking about their getting the bends, and the guest said that was ridiculous,that they were just about at regular air pressure. But who takes his word, a voice on the radio? One could measure the air pressure. Doesn't the smartphone do that? :-)

[trader_4]

Drilling isn't an option. The area above is on the mountain/hill with no roads. So, first they'd have to construct a road just to get there. I'd be surprised if they don't go the scuba route like today. Reports I see are raining starting like now, getting worse, reaching 1.5" on Tue,

2+" on wed. And IDK how much rain it takes to make things worse, but obviously enough rain fell in just a couple of hours to nearly drown them to begin with.

It might just be the air that

[Ed Pawlowski]

Just watching the news. Men are up to their neck in one spot and with all the rescuers in the cave, oxygen levels are getting low so they are running an air line in.

[trader_4]

They said on the news that they don't have a phone link in there yet. That seems odd. I wonder if this will turn into a cluster f*** with all the govt agencies involved where they can't make a decision or set a clear direction.

[gfretwell]

Actually he died diving on an empty tank. That is ignorance or arrogance.