Home ac having problems - freon doesn't seem to be circulating

[The Daring Dufas]

Why tell me? The folks I do work for don't have the money to replace a system. BeeHO hasn't stimulated theirs or my bank account so folks call on me to repair what they have. It's called survival and making do with what you got. I had an old fellow call me one day to look at a Carrier he had bought back in the early 70's. It was the best and most expensive unit Carrier made for homes at that time. It has stainless steel hardware, factory sight glass, high and low pressure controls, anti short cycle timer and a temperature controlled two speed condenser fan. The condenser fan motor burned out and an HVAC company told him he needed a new system. I took a look at his old Rolls Royce of an AC and told him "Don't you dare get rid of this system!". I replaced the two speed condenser fan motor and the system goes into low speed mode at night and thanks to an insulating blanket over the compressor, it barely makes a sound in quiet mode. His neighbors all around him have newer AC units that sound like airplanes taking off. The repair bill was quite a bit less than the $8,000 the other guys wanted.

TDD

[Stormin Mormon]

And, that's the state of the economy. We're headed into a depression to make 1929 look like party week at the frat house. I get plenty of chances to rescue older equipment. I regularly work on R-12 equipment that dates back to before the freon boondoggle.

[Steve]

Again, specific situation that may or may not apply to the op. Maybe he's in the upper pennisula, it just needs a little freon, and the guy has been laid off for 6 months now. You can list cases supporting replace and I can list cases for repair. My point was if you don't have all the facts you can't just make a blanket recommendation.

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In case you missed it, R22 refrigerant that is in the old systems if being phased out, and is rapidly going away. I give it 6-8 months before the

*WHOLESALE* cost of R22 is going to jump to $500 for a 30lb jug..... before any mark-up, or the techs time to put it in. Add to that that the manufactures no longer make anything that takes the old refrigerant. You can pay me now, or you can pay me now, *and* pay me later. FWIW, in 2004 when production and importing of R22 was cut back 35%, the wholesale price jumped from $1,600 for a pallet, to $6,800 for a pallet. January 1st of this year, it was cut back an additional 75%, and in January of 2015(5 years from now) there will be an additional 90% cutback. The new systems with the "new" refrigerant (R-410a), use half the amount of refrigerant for the same capacity as the old ones, use a whole lot less energy to run them, and are extremely quiet. Where is there a down side to increasing comfort, and lowering utility bills, as well as getting tax credits, and manufacturer as well as utility company incentives??

BTW... according to Appliance Magazine, the average lifespan of heating and cooling systems is 13 - 17 years.

[brassplyer]

Well, I tend to do it myself within the bounds of common sense. Almost never pay an auto mechanic, have replaced engines, trannies, etc. myself. Installed my own water heater, repaired an entire section of carpenter ant damaged wall, etc.

However, I'm also conscious of possible hazards of fumbling around something I'm not familiar with or accidentally trashing a unit that

*could* have been salvaged by a reputable pro had they been given the chance to work on it before I wreaked havoc on it.

If I can find something obvious that I can remedy it myself, I'm more than happy to tackle it. But at this point I'm trying to become educated as much as anything.

[brassplyer]

My method - disconnect power from unit at the outside breaker and main breaker. Take top grill/fan piece of condenser housing. Pull plant crap out by hand and/or with a shop vac, hose down the coils to remove other crap. Anything wrong with this?

Unit was working like a champ the last time I fired it up a few months ago. Cooled off the house quickly. Sound like maintenance was obviously called for (as of that time) to you?

[Tony Hwang]

Hmm, You know how to revive dead person? Your a/c system is dead or dying due to old age. Time for new one. Economy needs you spend money. That Freon filled old machine is power sucking low efficiency monster. Upgrade. Even if you fix it, it won't last long. Be wise and do a right thing. Not all HVAC techs are crooks. There are more honest good ones than bad ones. Ask around, you'll find good honest dependable one near you. Treat him/her well, He/She will treat you well. You brass player? Me too low brass all my life.

[Steve]

My method - disconnect power from unit at the outside breaker and main breaker. Take top grill/fan piece of condenser housing. Pull plant crap out by hand and/or with a shop vac, hose down the coils to remove other crap. Anything wrong with this?

Unit was working like a champ the last time I fired it up a few months ago. Cooled off the house quickly. Sound like maintenance was obviously called for (as of that time) to you?

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Naw..... just run it till it quits, then get ready to shell out the big buck$$$$

[brassplyer]

Yeah, that's a factor I've been hearing, the efficiency is supposed to be a lot better on newer units.Of course, due to minimal usage, I've never had a power bill over about $130. That's in the dead of summer. Never running it, the bill's around $70. So at most it's costing me around $2/day to run.

The other consideration is this tax break that's currently available, and a modest credit from the power company.

[Stormin Mormon]

As old as your system is, it very likely needs professional cleaning. I'm sure a few on alternating havoc are tired of hearing me say "have your condensing unit professionally cleaned". I've found over the years that even condensors that look clean are often dirty. Which interferes with cooling, and drives the electric bill up. One Trane I cleaned, the amp draw dropped about amp after cleaning. Which is equivilant to turning off two 100 watt light bulbs.

[Stormin Mormon]

Not wrong, just incomplete. The professional coil cleaning chemicals do wonders.

[Stormin Mormon]

I played trumpet when I was in about 4th grade. Years later, I got a chance to try a bugle. I'd lost all the skill I had.

I couldn't even brass my way through. I tried, but I didn't have the pucker any more. I shoulda kept on with the lessons. I'd like to play, these days. Taken some piano lessons, but carrying a piano in a marching band is a pain in the brass.

[cshenk]

"Stormin Mormon" wrote

While I am willing to know when I need a pro.

I doubt I will see a problem. I don't know what to look for.

I have a company coming out tomorrow to check mine. I probably do not need a full HVAC reoplacement (combined heat and AC and heat worked while AC is under cooling). All I know we skipped HVAC maintenance while paying off

25,000$ in rental damage and some 5,000$ in materials to 'DIY' repairs.

I am pretty sure we just need added coolant. We have not done that in 3 years since return as as far as we lnow, it was last done in 1998. The renters were not bashful at all at getting contractors in the reducing their rent by the cost and filing after the fact but there is no referent to Freon added. Heck I was in Japan. I can just reasonably guess last fill was 1998.

In my case, still have AC but it is not as cool as it should be. Last year it was 'ok' but I recall it being better.

Professionals due in tomorrow to service the unit and do what is needed.

[cshenk]

"Stormin Mormon" wrote

Grin, I'm hopeful that is all I need! In fact, it's a possible. I asked for servicing too.

Groan, when we got back they hadn't changedd the filters since we left in

2001. We even left then with with 6 of them (anticipating 3 years away).

[Stormin Mormon]

There are some people who don't maintain anything till it breaks. Sounds like you had those type of people.

[GregS]

One thing you can do is take a clamp ammeter around the 220 line and measure the amps. On mine I measure 6 amps, which probably shows some loss of refridgerent but its still working. older AC will draw a lot more amps.

greg

[GregS]

[Stormin Mormon]

That can provide some information. Of course, an older unit will draw more. A dirty unit will draw more. An under charged unit will draw less.

Dirty and undercharged can cancell each other out.

[Stormin Mormon]

Great link! Working that back, led to a list of JPEG files, that can be printed.

[The King]

snip

I realize economic hard times require a flare in salesman ship but I have to take issue with a few things. The first one is the scare tactic about price and availability. Price wise r22 costs exactly $1.11 more per pound than r410a. Availability wise, r22 will be produced until 2020 although at a reduced rate as you said. How much the price will actually go up is based on a guess but Im willing to bet as r22 goes up r410a keeps pace.

The second one is the quantity of r22 in a 10 seer system vs r410 in the new minimal seer rating of 13. The 22 system held (arco aire) for instance 4.25# of r22 where as the new unit of the same size (2.5 tons) holds 4.10# of r410a. Not even close to half. The cost differential to fill both systems is less than five dollars.

That being said, sometimes I read some of the stuff here and wonder, is it mere ignorant misrepresentation or borderline dishonesty. I also wonder if sometimes when these sales pitches are given if you can actually see the sales mans nose growing.

[The King]

Your brain and mouth cancels each other out.