WE are losing it.

Page 8 of 10  
On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:43:25 -0800 (PST), Robatoy

He puts his hand on the Bible and swears to uphold the Constitution.
Not the other way around.
(we hope - although some, of late, appear to have this confused)
Regards,
Tom Watson
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1 /
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On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 23:37:03 GMT, "Leon"

Hi again,
Let me start by saying I very much appreciate your response to me question, but it does raise another:
How might it feel for you if you were called into court as a witness, or perhaps even charged with a crime (just for the sake of my example <g>) and on entering the courtroom behind the judge you saw hanging on the wall some set of moral principles completely different from those with which you grew up?
Would you feel it appropriate were I to say to you at that point "You can ignore them if you find them offensive."?
Thanks again,
--
Kenneth

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Again, If those Moral Principals were GOOD I would have no problem at all. If I were in a court room in Iran, I would not have much say in the matter. Either place, I can choose to ignore them or not.

I am not going to answer that simply because the whole reason for those moral princpals is to remind that person or people that he or they should be truthful and honest. Although those moral principals are displayed, the person in question can either accept them or ignore them. It is a daily occourance that those moral principals are in fact ignored. If you are a good person the effect of those principals should have a positive out come.
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On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 00:57:04 GMT, "Leon"
Hi Leon,

Well, I do regret that you will not answer my question, but I do thank you for your reactions to this point.
All the best,
--
Kenneth

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One major problem: the 10 Commandments are the basis for western society today. You're in a world of trouble if you go into a courtroom and find something different from the moral and legal and ethical code you grew up with. That code involves the 10 Commandments, whether you are Christian or not. Think about the courts we know of that do not subscribe to the Judeo-Christian moral and ethical codes and the laws that have come about because of them. Do you relaly think you'll get a better deal in a Muslim court with some words of Mohammed on the wall-- or not on the wall, but reverberating through the heads of the other participants? Would you care to be tried in China where there is no code of any kind except what the current leaders say?
I am the last person to want to force Christianity or Judaism down anyone's throat, but the solid fact is those two religions form the basis for much of what we call society today. The 10 Commandants might be an indication of the fairness of attitude you can expect in that particular courtroom. Or it may just be a decoration.
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wrote:

Only to a fool. Those are the source of our common law and culture.
"Hate crime" penalties and "affirmative action" programs don't imply, they codify special consideration.
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There are some strange and disturbing happenings in Houston, that's for sure. My niece goes to HSPVA, and it is like the 60s all over again. She is almost feeling guilty about being anglo, not just seeing herself as another in the teeming pond of humanity.
She is being taught somewhere (NOT at home) the Christians and Christianity are wrong. She is glad to tell me that she can't stand Christians. Her reasoning? "Because they want to take over everything".
Hmm.... inquiring minds, you know....
OK, have they made some bold business moves to take over oil, auto, steel, electronics, banking or the internet?
Well no, she said, none come to mind.
So, any hard core members of Christian orthodoxy (you know, the kind that put murderers, thieves and adulterer to death) take over a state government? Any multinational, multicultural armies formed by the Christians to threaten, terrorize or murder in ANY country, state, or individual that doesn't believe in Jesus? (I am thinking of The Crusades in my mind.)
Well no, she didn't mean that.
Have you or your friends been arrested or disciplined in any way for speaking out against the Christians? Have any Christians, even a militant sect carried out any type of activities that harmed you or your friends in any way?
(anyone with teenagers in their life picture the eye rolling of a teenage girl here) NOOO.... they haven't done anything to me or my friends and they aren't trying to take over the world.
Well, you know that begged the question to be asked. "So why do you hate them so much?"
Answer: Their attitude. (This was never clearly defined, but in her mind it was a real thing). And the fact that the literati of the school informed them that the use of God in the Pledge of Allegiance could be unconstitutional. And, she argued, it was shameful that as American we are so uneducated, unaware of other cultures and so arrogant that we believe that a nation could be formed under God. What if there is no God? What if there is Buddha (or any other entity) and no God?
She says "under God" but only under protest. She is too mindful of the rights and feelings of others and waaay too intellectually aware to fall into the trap of that simple statement.
But she gushes on and on about many other religions, other philosphies, and is in wonder and awe at their rites, customs and tenets. She is proud to tell me that should all embrace other religions and be tolerant of what our uneducated minds see and idiosyncrasies. She is very proud of her religious awareness, and her tolerance of religions.
So I asked her why she didn't feel that way about the Christians. Well, no real answer except to tell me "it's different". I asked her if that with her tremendous tolerance of other religions and their rites and customs if she couldn't cut the Christians a break on The Pledge. Nope, she said. Hmmm.... so much for religious tolerance.
She doesn't quite have angst about being anglo, but she kind of wishes she wasn't. She loves the Asian culture and religions, same with the Indian culture and religion, and there is another that she is currently infatuated with as well. She feel like their culture is special, and just being a plain old anglo Christian is bad. Someway, we were left behind.

I know that to be true. Religious symbols are not tolerated. In fact, they just recently went to uniforms at HSPVA so they can kind of have that socialistic feel that there aren't even any class differences.

You know, that bugs the crap out of me. Society is about learning from each other, and tolerance of one another. Even if you don't believe in God, those are some pretty damn good rules to live by and great instruction on how to conduct one's self.
If Anthony Robbins had written them, they would be everywhere like "Chicken Soup For the Soul".

You know, Texas is supposed to be so backwards, old fashioned, and right wing. I would propose that we could do any state full of lefties proud with out progressive legislation.
In the holiest of shrines in Texas, also known as The High School Football Stadium, students, teachers, players, coaches, fans... NO ONE can say the Lord's prayer unless to themselves. We have been praying those boys don't get hurt on the field ever since I can remember, but no more in San Antonio. I believe that this is the law in Texas now, although it is enforced much less in the smaller towns.
But when a group of students in San Antonio decided to exercise their religious freedom (about 1,000) of them at a football game and say the Lords' Prayer out loud before the game, they were made to stop by ushers and security. The ones that didn't stop were ushered out.
So much for religious tolerance, or even tolerance of others, eh? How hard would it have been for others to stand quietly for a minute and let the folks pray for the safety of their kids to a Christian God? I mean really, Christianity is still the predominate/preferred religion of most of the US, so trying to hide it, ban it, or silence it seems to be a wrong against the will of at least some of the people.
How hard would it be for my niece to skip that one sentence in The Pledge and allow those that believe in God to say so?
I would at least think that these grand intellectual minds that debate the validity and place of Christianity in today's world would try to teach some tolerance for one another. I'm not holding my breath, though. Christianity seems to be quite at odds with the intellectual crowd at this time. I have even heard it debated on NPR as to whether it is actually a religion or maybe a cult.
Sigh.
Robert
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Snip of a very common happening these days.

This is a consequence of a youth that has had a lot handed over on a silver platter and gets immediate gratification.
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The kiddos are being taught that claptrap by their teachers and professors that are in their 30s, 40s, and 50s. Certainly the chatterboxes debating Christianity's actual definition were in their 50s and 60s.
Wait... we could be about the same folks. Same crap, different day kinda thing.
Robert Robert
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wrote:

For your next talk you may want to address the concept of "ethnic self-loathing". My observation is that it can be pretty much independent of ethnicity.
--
FF

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Leon:
I don't think anyone here believes you are a racist for what you said. You are being baited.
BUT... good sir...
Lemme give you all the ammo you could want to defend your statement

About 6 - 8 months ago PBS had a 12 hour series called "America At the Crossroads". Knowing that the world would not trust anything produced in America as factual, it was a co-production with the BBC.
I watched every episode, every minute. Some episodes more than once.
I would highly suggest anyone that actually had any kind of interest beyond name calling and screaming about civil rights take a long, hard look at this series. There was quite a bit if talk in the series about just that - using our own laws against us.
Then the worst part. They had a couple of high ranking Muslim leaders that headquartered in the Philippines that openly sneered at the US and our system of laws. They despised the US for fact that they could come into our country, preach anarchy, overthrow of the government and could actually get a police escort to protect them in their efforts. He commented on our weak minded stupidity to let them come into the country and do those things out in the open.
That one particular leader made it clear: if we don't have enough pride in or appreciate enough to protect what we have as a nation and as a culture, then we don't deserve to have it.
That made it pretty easy to understand.
Watch or rent the show. It is a lot deeper than your one sentence comment. Until you see it, you won't appreciate the gravity of your comment.
Robert
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In article <2d645eed-aaf2-4f55-9733-

So you are saying you were baited by extremists on tv who made you skeptical of freedom. Well done.
S.
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Ahhh... another poster savaged by illiteracy. Read the post over and over... don't give up... it is possible you may eventually understand the post with careful study.
I can't help with your comprehension, but this might help you some:
http://tinyurl.com/3qe7
Robert
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wrote:

Well, well, well....LOL
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On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 22:26:15 -0800 (PST), " snipped-for-privacy@aol.com"

I just went to that page and saw that the Spanish word for the day is "Cabal".
Spanish Word of the Day Friday February 22, 2008 Today's Word | Yesterday's Word | Previous Words | Subscribe for Free | Help
cabal, adjective: upright, fine; full, clear
Cabal is a slightly formal word you may come across in newspapers or books. It has two rather different meanings. Applied to people, it means fine and upright:
Era hombre cabal y trabajador como ninguno. He was a fine man and a hard worker.
persona cabal y buen poltico a fine person and a good politician
When referring to an idea or a picture of something, it means full or clear:
No resulta fcil hacerse una idea cabal de cul es la verdadera situacin. It isnt easy to get a clear idea of what the real situation is.
If you want to stress how honest somebody is, you use the next phrase:
Es honrado a carta cabal. Hes completely and utterly honest.
This is very interesting to someone from rec.norm.
It also points up the confusion that can occur when language is used imprecisely, as is the case with the OP.
Take for instance two words which sound similar, "microcephalic", and, "microphallic".
Whilst it may be argued that the OP demonstrates symptoms of both, this does not mean that they have a necessary connection, and one may be present without the other, even though by appearances they would seem to be in etymological lock step.
Returning to the point: as would seem to be the case with "Cabal" in the above example, perhaps the OP was using what appeared to be the English word "Race", when in fact it was from another language entirely.
(many thanks to Professor Irwin Corey, who taught me everything worth knowing about language)
Regards,
Tom Watson
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1 /
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In article

What he doesn't seem to understand is that a portion of the pride and appreciation of our nation and culture is the freedom of speech he feels he is using to his advantage at our expense. He also seems to lack the ability to see beyond his own actions to those of others. Once he has broadcast his message others are likewise free to rebut and disagree.
Just because he can say it publicly and be protected in that action, he has no further control over the public response.
--
This Administration begs the question: WWJT?

_____
Owen Lowe
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wrote:

It seems pretty clear that what he has said reflects their attitude and why they attacked us and continue to attack us. If you don't understand their culture, the one that been at war for thousands of years you may never understand that they will slowly take over the world. They are very patient and persistent. They know nothing else. Unfortunately this generation of Americans want immediate gratification and are easily swayed from their goals.
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Muslims ain't gonna make it. The Chinese will turf 'em out. Talk about long term...they're still bragging about being a civilized society back when 1% of the population lived off the efforts of 99%, so the 1% could grow fingernails that curled into their palms and proved they did no physical work. Oh, wait. That hasn't changed, except for the fingernails.
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Well, you probably have a good point there. The Muslims will probably take us down and then the Chinese will take them down.
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Or the other way around. Let's not forget all the chances we give the Chinese to poison us, after which our company leaders get to apologize (i.e., Mattel's CEO) to the Chinese for bitching about it.
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