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wrote:

It is a reminder that your God is aware of what you are saying. You need to be honest and truthful with your answers.
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On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 01:42:49 GMT, "Leon"

Hi again,
A reminder to whom?
God, as you have said, already knows.
So it would appear that the only (relevant) person left would be the person about to offer testimony. And that person's moral standing surely would not be altered by the necessity to speak an oath that they either already believe to be of great importance, or see as nonsense.
Thanks again,
--
Kenneth

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You answere that below.

Absolutely correct, but that persons moral standing "could" be altered by the necessity to speak an oath that they either believe to be of great importance. Or not. If he is truthful he may sleep better tonight. The oath is for the person taking the oath.
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Leon wrote:

Does this mean atheists can lie in court? No, there are laws against that. So why bother with the pretense of "God" being "aware" of what you are saying.
Its funny that we can giggle at kids when they have to behave because "Santa is watching" then we mimic that same behavior in our Courts.
:Flame suit on::
Andy
--
:: Clever Sig here ::

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It's okay. It has all been said.
r
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So you would encourage a witness to lie to the court while taking the oath if he doesn't believe in God but trust that he would tell the truth under questioning?
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wrote:

No, As long as he only mentally retracts the oath and from that point on tells the truth. The Oath does not make you tell the truth. Those with any Good morals should not object, recant or have a problem with sticking with the oath. Those that "feel" that they have a legitimate reason to mentally retract the oath and continue to lie from that point on purger themselves. The oath is just the person giving his word to tell the truth and makes his testimony "1" step closer to being believed by a jury that has faith in God.
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How about someone who believes they have a religious obligation to refuse to swear a religious oath, but a mental moral obligation to tell the truth?
--
FF

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wrote:

You forgot to ask if that person had his fingers crossed at the time of the oath. Are you really at a loss for answers? Do you really need me to be your guide. Are you trying to paint some kind of picture here?
Answering your question, the above statement describes a contradicting situation. I would say that that person is having trouble in his faith. Do you know a person like this?
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Yes, I'm not clear on how you think the court should deal with an honest person who refuses to take a religious oath before giving his testimony.
Please tell us.

I'm firm in my belief that my religion is none of the state's goddamn business and will not take a religious oath at the behest of the state.
Nor would I give false testimony.
--
FF

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Like ANY ONE else, he gets tossed in jail for contempt. I mentioned this in another post, EVERYONE stands in the same line, read that as no one gets special treatment. If you feel that you are being picked on because you are different, quit being different. You have that choice.

That is good to know.
Better not get caught in court in Texas.
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message

Good trolling.
I went to the trouble of finding a person who sat on a jury in Texas who took a secular juror's oath, and said a secular oath was also permitted for witnesses, though they are assumed to no object to the religious one unless they speak up.

Well we probably made a mistake letting you Texicans join the Union in the first place.
--
FF



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"Fred the Red Shirt" wrote

Au contraire ... it was the other way around. Not too worry, though .. you're going to have to take it back from Mexico real soon now.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
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"Swingman" wrote:

My former barber (30 year Air Force) was fond of saying, "What they lost with the sword, they are taking back with the pecker."
Of course, that seemed to fit in with Orange County, birthplace of the John Birch Society.
Lew
Lew
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Lew Hodgett wrote:

Not the Birch John Society? (getting back on topic, the Birch John Society stands foursquare for the preservation of wood privies.)
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Grow up Fred, no need to get snotty about it. If you are frustrated talk to your wife.
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Leon wrote:

Wrongo. Courts allow a person to solemnly affirm (NOT swear) he will tell the truth, with no ties to religious belief.
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The person who refuses to say the words because of their moral beliefs is actually truer and of higher moral character than the one who says it to get along with the majority rule and rescinds it mentally later.
As a juror I would place more credence in the testimony of former than the later (if I was aware of their deception).
By the way, the last time I was a juror (5 years ago-ish) the oath went as follows (in Oregon): "Please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you will give here today will be the truth under penalty of perjury?"
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That is your openion and are certainly entitled to it. But refusing to say the oath for what ever reason does not make a person truer and or of higher moral character. He can just as easily lie later also.

That is just sad.

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Leon wrote:

The oath was similar when I had to give a deposition a few years ago in New York state.

The use of a bible or an oath to God is not mandatory in any U.S. court, including the swearing in of the President. If it were the ACLU would have a field day.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
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