Speaking of home wood-related repairs...

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RicodJour wrote:

I did ask him, and he went off on me out digging the hole further. There's a pile-on mentality in here that cracks me up.
--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
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Perhaps you were looking for a Stuart Smalley newsgroup...? I'll see if I can help. You're good enough, you're smart enough, and doggone it, people like you!
You were still wrong about the 16000 lbs. ;)
R
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RicodJour wrote:

Great, I'm over that. I've been over that. I'm not the one who keeps bringing it up.
What I'm interested in are the real numbers. I thought others might be, too, but all you seem to be interested in is pointing out what an idiot you think I am, which says much more about you than me.
I saw that Bob was an expert and asked about three times and got nothing more than finger pointing.
I asked that other guy, Richk Structural Engineer, to explain his numbers a little more. Haven't heard from him, but maybe he'll add something after he reads it.
--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
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wrote: self justifying silliness.
OK, you win this weeks Robatoy Memorial I Won't Admit I'm Wrong Award.
A bronzed jointer guard will be presented to you at the next meeting.
Thank you for playing.
Regards,
Tom Watson http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1 /
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Go fuck yourself, Watson. :-)
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Hmmm, I've read most of Conan Doyle - don't remember that quote.
R
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On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 15:00:03 -0400, the infamous Tom Watson

2 points, Tawmy.
--
"Giving every man a vote has no more made men wise and free
than Christianity has made them good." --H. L. Mencken
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Mike-
I sorry you're pissed off. Lots of guys provided good comments & good information
One of my later posts gave you range of answers
reposted here:

depends on the loading conditions & assembly
an ultimate number or an allowable (like a working load) number?
allowable in timber like ~100lbs
ultimate load in timber, probably 400lbs
ultimate load in a test machine...depending on the steel condition / alloy; maybe 800+ lbs
<<<<<<<
I failed (fail) to see how this answer didn't satisfy your questions.
Seems to me it covered all the bases, pretty much
except the 800+ lbs number, which was a bit imprecise & dependent on alloy & heat treat.
But the truth be told, nails (in timber construction, where they are mostly used) fail in bending not shear or combination with withdrawal. I'm thinking of shear wall applications which are one of the few where nailed connections are taken beyond the system yield point.
Your continuing to pursue the subject after this answer was interpreted by me (perhaps incorrectly) that you were "shopping the answer" ......by changing the conditions until you got the answer you wanted.
If I was wrong about that, my apologies.
Perhaps we just we use different language to describe this situation and were talking "passed each other"
...unfortunately (for you) the language I use (or try to use) is that agreed upon by engineering & construction pros. The use of precise language in these situations is important otherwise mis-communication occurs.
wrt to the "douche bag" comment...... I sometimes have that effect on people but I still invited to my fair share of parties so I'm not too worried. :)
cheers Bob
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fftt wrote:

My condition never changed. I tried to get past the false terminology by saying, "shear (tear off like being cut, or whatever the proper scientific terminology is)" in the hopes that someone would understand what I was getting at.
You started to help and provide some helpful information with that lawnmower portion and said the info was meaningless..
I replied that there are "...testing situations that never happen in the real world..." and I even used a smiley face to try to convey that I wasn't being argumentative. And you said I was, "writing nonsense."
That is when I perceived that you weren't interested in a dialog anymore, and so I reverted to name calling.

Accepted. I apologize to you for the name calling.

As I explained above, I was trying to get there, but everyone just thought I was backpedaling. I guess we've spent too much time listening to politicians.

--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
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I'm far from superior....... I come to this newsgroup to learn stuff (as I assume most others do)
when people (like you) post unsupported & unsupportable claims it reduces the value of this forum
you asked for info, people provide it (you disbelieved it) ....you were asked for cites or examples & you provided none...just more hand waving
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When you entered the discussion, you made it apparent that you were an expert who had done testing like that, and that I was way off.
I wrote, "Cool. Any idea what it can take?" That's me moving on.
You gave me numbers. I didn't "disbelieve" anything. I tried to clarify what the tests were and wanted to start a discussion about lab tests that are done to test materials until they break, not until they lose their grip in wood.
I suggesting that tests are done on materials that go way beyond what those materials will ever handle in real life application and you called that "nonsense."
It's clear to me that you're only interested in telling me how wrong I am.
--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
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On Fri, 09 Oct 2009 15:39:20 -0500, the infamous -MIKE-

That's not shearing, that's bending, and the screw isn't built for that. True shearing test is to screw 2 2x4s together and hold on in the vise while you hit the other on directly on the 2" side, along the 4" plane. (dims referential)
I've tried shearing two 3" deck screws that way and couldn't do it with my 220 lbs + a jumping stomp.
They're brittle enough to bend and break in your test, though, because the end is unsupported. But try lagging a 2x4 to an upright 4x4 post, then screwing a 2x4 to it. Now lay a 2x6 on top and screw it to the outer 2x4 and jump on the 2x6 with your heaviest buddy. I'll bet you don't shear it if they are all securely tightened. No fair if the 2-by splits first. That means you put a torsion force on it, not a shear force.
Go on. I double dare ya! ;)
--
"Giving every man a vote has no more made men wise and free
than Christianity has made them good." --H. L. Mencken
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J. Clarke wrote:

Shear strength of a 16d nail is 150 pounds
http://74.125.113.132/search?q che:jPPGP54rgrEJ:www.fireserviceslt.com/files/Shoring_for_Structural_Collapse_Brian_Ward_1_.ppt+shear+strength+16d+nail&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
That means if you hang your tool belt on a nail in the wall, you will break the nail.
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Right...if you're wearing the belt at the time.
R
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RicodJour wrote:

And it would still hold you.
--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
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cheers Bob
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Mike-
I know all about "those giant machines".......I ran a research lab for nearly 20 years, we had one.
And there is NO WAY a single 16d name can do ANYTHING that involves 16,000 lbs other than be destroyed at a WAY lower number.
You're latest post is mostly nonsense. :(
cheers Bob
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fftt wrote:

Cool. Any idea what it can take?
--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
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There are fairly rare occasions when the sheer value of a nail is necessary to know. I was given the number 90# in sheer for a 16d box nail once when it really did matter, this number was from a structural engineer who I am sure had quite a safety factor in his figures. Of course, common nails are higher.
--
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http://www.mcvicker.com/offtech/smnail.htm
R
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