Solid Counter top for the DIY

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You can do whatever you want.

Not running out of ideas. this is a simple disagreement. Nothing I can add would change your mind, and nothing you could add would change mine.
And I didn't ask and won't.

Good for you, and I don't care what you do.

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Frank Boettcher wrote:

This is where you're dead wrong. I thrive on other people's points of view. It is healthy to look at new (to me) ideas. I change my mind all the time as further info becomes available and conditions change.
Try it, it might work for you too.
r
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I was told several years ago that DuPont limits the availability of their certification program to only those fabricators who can guarantee that they will do so many thousands of dollars worth of solid-surface business per year. [I don't remember the exact figure, but it had five digits left of the decimal.] Was I told a story, or is that actually the case?
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 01:53:36 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

I can't speak to the truth of that, Doug.
I got my certification in the early 80's through the regional supply house.
We went to a seminar for a day, listened to some boring stuff that was replicated in the printed matter, watched some dude show us the sleds and such, and then we had lunch.
I have gotten updates ever since but have not gone back to "school".
I was interested in buying a sheet a couple of years ago and the supplier said that I was still on the buy list, even though I hadn't done any Corian or Avonite bidness in a long time.
The real deal is, an independent fabricator buys the goods at retail and he can get the same goods, already fabricated - and installed - for less money.
Once the guys who were then laminate shops got into the solid surface stuff, the independent was knocked out because he could not buy the material at decent prices.
What is interesting to me is that the guys who used to be lam shops have now become solid surface and granite shops.
Solid surface is way more like granite than it is like lam.
There are still pure lam shops but they are usually devoted to bottom feeder work. the more interesting lam work is kicked up to the solid surface/granite shops, because they have the horses.
Rob is way more current than me on this and I would not be unhappy to have him correct me.
Regards,
Tom Watson
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1 /
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I went to DuPont 'school' for 3 days in Brandywine. Thermoforming etc. Quite informative. The Canadian distributor sponsored my trip. 4 Colours in both 3/4" and 1/2". I wanted the product to build loudspeaker boxes.

[snipped for brevity]

I paid too much for DuPont for a few years, but architects were starting to spec it, so I kept my 'qualification' current. Then Wilsonart came upon the scene with a polyester product, soon to it was replaced by Gibraltar...an acrylic based product. Doing a lot of retail store interiors, I was always playing with glass, neon, plastics, laminates, ceramics etc. It was a fit. Many kitchen dealers wanted to sell those types of countertops. I thought it was an honourable way to make a buck, so it grew and grew.

Same here. But I still do lam.

Agreed
Indeed. I don't do post-formed crap either

You're still current. I will sell you material..<EG>

Rob
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Robatoy wrote:

They must have had two different training tracks; one for installers and one for fabricators.
My one day course must have been for installers only, because I don't recall any discussion of thermoforming.
My recollection is that we learned how to cut it and join it and do edge treatments. We were warned about color variations between batches. We were told how to prep the substrate, openings, penetrations, etc.
I was prolly using the terms fabricator and installer interchangeably and incorrectly.
Sorry about that.
So, did you guys just drink for the other two days, or did you learn something cool?
BTW - by Brandywine, do you mean the DuPont facility in Delaware? That's about half an hour from where I grew up. So where did I go to Corian school? New Jersey - about an hour and a half away - go figger.
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Ping me when you are coming down. That's the home turf.
The river is the Brandywine and it winds through Chester County on its way to Delaware. There is one old DuPont estate that has become Longwood Gardens which is one of the finest botanical gardens in the world. Another DuPont estate is now home to one of the finest collections of furniture in the world - Winterthur. It's nice to see money made in gunpowder put to such fine use.
Andy Wyeth's place is on the Brandywine just above Chadd's Ford and if you are into his painting, you might enjoy seeing some of the country, buildings and people that he painted.
The Battle of the Brandywine occurred in the area and there was a local historian named Chris Sanderson who was famous for lecturing about it in such a fine and animated way that folks weren't even all that disappointed to learn at the end that we had gotten our asses kicked in that one.
There also happens to be a place that is renowned for its collection of single malt scotches. They have a great fireplace, for real gasogenes for those who feel the need to abuse their beverage, and a wonderful collection of Waterford crystal that they put to its intended use. An evening spent in one of the wingback chairs by the fireplace, good whiskey and good company is something to be experienced.
Oh yeah, they also serve food.
Regards,
Tom Watson
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1 /
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<...snipped...>

There ARE such sources. Just put "DIY solid surface countertop" in a google search and you'll find some on the first page returned.
--
Make it as simple as possible, but no simpler.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - snipped-for-privacy@charm.net
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On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 04:34:47 -0600, snipped-for-privacy@fellspt.charm.net () wrote:

Thanks for the info.
Frank
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On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 04:34:47 -0600, lwasserm wrote:

There are?
Then please provide a link to just one of those suppliers of acrylic solid surface. There's plenty of polyester available but that's not what we're talking about.
--
X:\Newsreaders\sig.txt

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J. Clarke wrote:

Lowes, LG-HIMACS:
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=brandPageProcessor&brandpage=lghi
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
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Nova wrote:

I did the clicky-pop and found this:
     LG HI-MACS is affordable luxury
Lower cost
The industry's only 15-year fully transferable warranty
All colors are available at Lowe's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Installed by certified fabricators<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Why You Should choose LG HI-MACS Solid Surface
LG HI-MACS is affordable luxury etc....
Installed by certified fabricators All fabricators are certified to fabricate and install LG HI-MACS. This means they are proven professionals which is reflective of the quality and service expectations of Lowe's.
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On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 18:13:29 +0000, Nova wrote:

They'll sell you a full sheet of the stuff uninstalled?
--
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Seldom do I agree with J. Clark on anything but I do on this. Any material (or any product, for that matter) can be screwed up by Joe Dipshit. High pressure laminate, paint, varnish, shellac, glue, laminated flooring all come to mind. Think about it, there are many, many more.
wrote:

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wrote:

Sounds more like you don't want to have to compete with someone who might underbid you.
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CW wrote:

Try to follow this scenario, if you can allow yourself to see things from another perspective. If I am faced with the fact that my distributor is shipping to a new, unestablished, fabricator who is in my neck of the woods, I have to ask myself the question why. If then, the new guy starts undercutting my pricing, I have to ask myself if I can afford to cut the margins to the point where it simply isn't worth the hassle of operating a business. I am not some phylantropical institution no matter how much the likes of Mr. Clarke would like me to be. Next thing you know, I stop ordering from that distributor. Meanwhile, the new fabricator's bills are due...he's not making enough money to operate a business, so he goes under. Now nobody is selling the product. The distributor now knows he screwed up. He wants to talk to Rob again. Rob tells him to go fuck himself. This very same scenario is an actual account of history. The distributors are smarter than that now. They know it is healthy if they allow a quality fabricator to stay in business.
My prices are 20+% lower that the solid surface countertops that Home Depot sells. 15% lower than IKEA. What that proves, is that I am neither greedy nor a price-fixer. Besides, I have shipped several slabs of solid surface material to Wreckers, so they can make routertable inserts. No charge, I paid the shipping.
To insinuate that I run a greedy, opportunistic business, proves one thing: you haven't got a clue what I am about. But if you want a piece of material to complete a project, all you have to do is ask, because even cantankerous old goats need a break once in a while.
r
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wrote:

might
So you're saying that it is better for you and the manufacturer to keep the tight little "club" going to ensure high prices and lack of competition.
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Somebody wrote:
> Sounds more like you don't want to have to compete with someone who > might underbid you.
If somebody wants to duplicate my investment in the necessary equipment and supplies as well as the additional manpower investment in field in what the manufacturer appears to consider mandatory training of my personnel (Or is that just another way of defining an apprentice program?), they are welcome to do it.
After making that investment, they are welcome to compete for business in my market area since we will both be on relatively equal footing.
Happens every day.
Lew
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Well said, Lew. However, this town of 70,000 with a total population if you include the whole county, of maybe 125,000 people, will not support two fabricating shops. In that respect, the manyfacturers look at me as if I am a franchise. Anybody who would gear up to make the neccessary investments, would know that there wouldn't be room for two. If somebody from the next town over (London) called me for a quote, I'd refer them to a fabricator I know who will do a good job at a good price.... in London. He paid to play, he ante'd up, he spend the time to learn the ins and outs, he's every bit as good at it as I am (maybe better).
We have one Honda dealer here and I can't for the life of me imagine two.
r
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