I am listening but must have missed it.... Too many years and too much complexity in the world since they passed I suppose, to have them making too much noise.
And I doubt that they would have been very > tzipple wrote:
And that says a lot about your confidence in your abilities and your personal cost/benefit ratios - but it really means nothing to some of us. I've been running power equipment for 30 years or so - since I was really too young to be doing it. I have developed a great deal of respect for the tools and make every effort to work in a way that allows me to stay clear of the sharp parts. I will probably not purchase a saw with this kind of device because the cost of even a minor contact is currently high enough to put me out of the shop for weeks or months until I could afford the new cartridge and blade. As I have said elsewhere, I suspect that the vast majority of table saw injuries don't involve amputation or even a trip to the emergency room. I have witnessed two TS accidents, both direct result of careless behavior around the saw, both were pretty good cuts, but neither even required stitches, simply a good bandage. One friend of mine did cut his thumb, index finger and half the next one off. That was one of those accidents that involved running the saw when tired and in a hurry. He probably would have appreciated SawStop at that moment!
Point is that I will apply a lot of personal controls to reduce the risk of a major injury rather than pay the premium on a system that can turn a 2 cent bandage injury into a $150 repair bill on the saw.
It's a calculated risk - but it *is* a *calculated* risk.
Tim Douglass
Sure, but is it worth the cost to reduce a two stitch injury to a band-aid one? Or a band-aid cut to a smaller band-aid? Remember that it will cost you at least $75 - $70 for the cartridge and $5 for a HF blade.
SawStop has raised the issue. It remains for others to try to innovate around the concept. I'm not one of those others, but there will be different approaches tried. Unless....
The point is that the manufacturers looked at the technology and said "we can do better on part of this" but SS won't let them try. They offered an all or nothing approach and ended up with the nothing. If they had licensed the detection part you might right now be seeing unisaws with something the equivalent of SawStop - or maybe not - but SS pretty much guaranteed that no one else will try. This isn't about correcting a defective tool, it is about adding entirely unproven technology that would lock them into design changes and tie them completely to a small, start-up company forever. *No* smart businessman would take that deal. If SawStop really was interested in helping woodworkers keep their fingers they would do everything they could - including licensing parts of their technology - to see that manufacturers added *some sort* of blade stopping device.
Any law that specifies a particular device to solve a problem is a poor law. Legislation should establish goals and allow the engineers, etc. to find ways to accomplish those goals. I would accept SawStop's proposed legislation on only one condition, that they made the design public domain so that anyone could build it. When the government just hands a company the keys to the safe bad things happen - see Halliburton. From where I sit SawStop looks just as greedy and corrupt as any of the big manufacturers - and just as uninterested in the fingers of the woodworking crowd.
Tim Douglass
Or perhaps to someone who understands how the world works.
--RC
Projects expand to fill the clamps available -- plus 20 percent
This presumes that SawStop is indeed better. The evidence that it is is extremely limited and comes almost entirely from someone who stands to make millions if it is adopted.
The debate reminds me of some of the inventors/stock promoters I have known and the gullible souls who got sucked into their schemes.
--RC
Projects expand to fill the clamps available -- plus 20 percent
You are finally starting to get it! For the manufacturers who all look at dollars and cents above all else, they simply put safety and the costs of rigging to accomodate sawstop on the scale, and lo and behold guess which one they chose. Let me give you a hint, it ain't safety. Corporate America chose the dollar over consumer safety yet again. Go figure!
ROTFLMAO!
Getting as little rattled are we? Rattled enough to not even know who you are responding to, huh?
Plenty of the other injuries you refer to as the ones that don't matter would be far less serious as demonstrated in the videos on the sawstop website.
Well then, where is your invention and patent? ..or are you just offering lip service here...
Another perfect example of why the manufacturers greed rules how evolution of innovation goes. Poor poor manufacturer got beat to the punch. Guess they were just too busy stufing their pockets with money to worry about whether or Harry homeowner keeps his fingers or not...what a joke!
I don't think it's sawstop that is stifling innovation. In fact, it's the manufacturers that are stifling it, by not even offering up the idea of stopping the blade prior to sawstops invention. Oh, how I weep for the billion dollar machinery industry! LOLOLOL... The idea of legislating manufacturers into advancement is not such a bad concept, especially considering that most all of the choices they make are about appearing to be concerned about safety, while not accomodating an operable safety system because they did not come up with it first. Maybe someone else is goign to make a score this time. I personally hope the little guy wins this one. Ever since the industrial revolution began, the manufacturers have exploited the common man. Now the common man has smartened up a bit, andis using the laws to get better protection. I see nothing wrong with that at all...
Maybe to someone who has absolutely no vision?
I'm glad you're inspired, but ask yourself this question: Why did SawStop choose to announce it was manufacturing its own saws months -- at least -- before they would start shippng?
This is unusual behavior in the woodworking industry to say the least. Most products are announced at trade shows about the time they are available for order by retailers and that's usually within 90 days of shipping the first units.
One explanation for this behavior is that it is a common method of sucking investors into a project. Sometimes that's a legitimate, if risky, strategy. Sometimes it's the mark of a smoke-and-mirrors artist.
You might want to stop romanticizing these guys and apply some of the same skepticism to them you like to show to the 'powers that be.'
The more I look at this the more questions I have.
--RC
Projects expand to fill the clamps available -- plus 20 percent
Here it comes... Yeah I work for sawstop...LOLOLOL! My website, shop, and the fact that I have been in business for years is all just a setup so that I can come here to this newsgroup and debate with 10 guys in the month of December in the year 2004. Hahahahahaha!
What I am pushing here is really not about sawstop. It's about all the skeptics and naysayers that come out of the woodwork (pardon the pun) when something better comes along, all the while being unwitting pawns of the manufacturers. Wake up man!
P.S. This debate reminds me of the tobacco manufacturers/smokers debacle...I mean, we are all addicts too, right!
So they claim, anyway. In fact some of the people who have actually looked closely at the product have some serious doubts. Look at the CPSC filings and pay particular attention to the reports of the technical experts SawStop attached to its petition.
Why does this whole argument remind me in a nasty way of the debate over airbags?
--RC
Projects expand to fill the clamps available -- plus 20 percent
Okay, but Grizzly did not spen several years developing anything either, nor did they spend several years to market their product to manufacturers. And I believe that Grizzly had its finances in order. And Grizzly was not going against the "powers that be!" And, by the way the website looks to me, sawstops original intent was not to make machiery, only the sawstop. It also looks like the only way that the inventor could bring this to market was enter into the machinery design and distribution business. Not really an easy task for a guy that already has acareer and has a family, huh? Sounds to me like sawstop worked their ass off to get to this point. I find it to be an inspiring chase for the American Dream.
Yeah, you should see me. Spittle dripping out of the corner of my mouth as I utter in a guttural croak "damn that pool cue repair guy" Really, really, really rattled. uh... right.
-j
Beamed up? Abducted? Ransom demands? Argentinian death squads?
You might want to wait until they come out with 'Hand Stop'; stops your hands from going near anything sharp or pointy.
And all his fingers.
HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.