Sawstop--the wrong marketing approach?

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here's another question about sawstop's machines.
does the extra mechanism for dropping the blade introduce another source of slop in the trunnion? I can't see how it wouldn't, especially over time.
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ted harris wrote:

Geez, where have _you_ been for the past several years? The attempts of the patentholder to persuade the government to require the use of this device are well documented and have been discussed here many times.
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In typed:

Wasn't that over "the last several years" as you yourself stated? Once again, the skeptics are referring to the past...not the present!
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Ted Harris
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ted harris wrote:

You mean he has stopped doing that? And your source for this information is?
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On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 00:16:20 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:

I think that the best thing for Sawstop could be the insurance companies. If my agent tells me my workman's comp will be 20% or 30% lower with Sawstop, I'd certainly take a look at it. Otherwise I'm not too interested.
Mike
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The idea of the Saw Stop is darn good....and aparently it works.....
BUT
Seatbelts are similar ...AND .By Law the auto manufacturers have to install them... and by State Law I have to buckle up or face a fine
If I held the patient for the saw stop you bet I would be doing everything possible to protect everyone from danger...
AND at the same time I would of course be making my bank account a lot bigger....
Bob Griffiths BTW... I have no use for a Saw Stop AND I do use my seat belts in MOST of my cars.. My old Corvette left the factory before they were required by law....
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If so, it's a peculiar business model, in that amputees are rather less likely than the general woodworking population to become repeat customers.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
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Doug Miller wrote:

So do the math--calculat the number of amputations resulting in inability to run saw (amputation of tip of pinky-finger for exampled does not count), calculate the percentage of those who were likely to ever buy your saw, figure the cost of lost sales, figure the cost of preventing the amputations, and see which makes you more money.

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--John
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typed:

I usually don't sound out the words when I'm typing or reading, so no. In fact I can even read without moving my lips.

Perpetuate what? I just mentioned some reasons which might explain why manufacturers rejected this product. Do you have another explanation?

I know you are patiently waiting for your turn to evolve into human form, but I can't help it that the guy in front of me is asking all sorts of dumb questions so stop pushing.

Did I ever contend that they did? Are you trying to imply that the white hat Sawstop folks are doing battle against the evil saw manufacturers who design machinery specifically to maim and disfigure you? No, I think that the issue boils down to the fact that SawStop has been vaporware for a long time which makes me doubt it's feasibility and that requesting that the government legislate a monopoly for your product is a sleazy business practice. Maybe these are what are preventing it from becoming a hit product rather than my de-evolutionary rantings. I'm sorry, you just can't blame me for their failure to deliver.
Go ahead and buy the damn thing if you want it. Support SawStop! Just don't bitch about it to me or make me buy one if I don't want to.
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Your argument makes no sense to me. When you buy a saw, blades are extra. Having to buy "an extra blade" won't make manufacturer's change their mind. That's what they do now.
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J wrote:

If in fact the blade is damaged. Does the current version of the Sawstop damage the blade?

Uh, why would you not just have a replacement cartridge on the shelf? Who said that the saw has to be "shipped to an authorized service center" or that you had to "wait for someone to come out and fix it"? You don't do either of those when you blow a fuse do you?

I'm sorry, but I thought we were talking about a marketing strategy, not about my personal preferences. And if the site has a starbucks nearby then it wouldn't seem to be so remote that getting a tech to come out would be an insurmountable difficulty.

So they put the in themselves. Nobody has said anything about "waiting for service".

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When I looked at it the answer was yes.

No, you just flip the breaker. If the breaker blows, then yes, it usually means a trip to the store plus some serious thought about why that happened. Some may want an electrician to do this.

The suggestion is that parts dealers would not be so numerous as starbucks.

You disagree with me. That is OK. I'm just glad I don't HAVE to buy one if I don't want one.
-j
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J wrote:

Is that still the case?

If you blow a fuse, you do not have a breaker to flip. You have to unscrew or unplug the old fuse and put a new one in. If you don't have a replacement fuse you have to go get one. If this happens on your car at midnight in a blizzard on a rareley travelled road, then you're screwed.

They don't have to be. In any case, if this is a real issue for you and you don't keep a spare cartridge on hand then that's your problem.

I don't particularly like the product or the company and probably would not make it a consideration in purchasing a saw. I was merely speculating on a way that the company might persuade saw manufacturers to use their product.
But your objections for the most part do not appear to be valid.

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I did my research. Your turn.

Right. This is why I replaced my fused electrical service with a set of circuit breakers. I still have a box of fuses. If you want them let me know.

Actually, since fuses are a dime a piece and there are always some extras included in the fuse compartment this isn't much of an issue unless you forget to replace them a number of times. And in the situation where you really truly don't have a fuse you just take one from something that you don't need. Power windows for example. I have done this on more than one occasion. On another occasion I blew a big starter fuse which was unusual enough that I didn't have a spare and that most auto parts stores don't carry. I fashioned one out of some wire I had in the trunk.
In none of these cases was I carrying around a spare part which cost a substantial fraction of the car's original cost.

Then why didn't the saw makers buy into this device? Why didn't the CPSC approve their petition? Why aren't people lining up to buy this saw?
Can it all just be conspiracy? Go ask Occam.
-j
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J wrote:

So you don't carry a spare tire, which costs about the same as a Sawstop cartridge?
The point is that if you know you might need the cartridge and you don't have one reasonably accessible, that is your choice to make and your error.

This may come as a shock to you but the fact that _your_ objections are not valid does not mean that there are not other objections that _are_ valid. Presumably the saw manufacturers did not buy into it because they saw no good reason to do so.

Perhaps because they felt that it was not adequately supported? Or perhaps during the public comment period enough people said "over my dead body" or words to that effect that they decided that the public did not want such a regulation to be implemented?

Because they don't want it?

Maybe it can be that we just don't want the thing.

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(spare tire/cost of car) < (sawstop cartridge + new blade/cost of saw) Call me a cheap bastard but I'm not carrying around a spare transmission or engine. My beef isn't with the cost of sawstop anyway. It is their business practices.

Similarly, I could carry around hot tea on my head and it would be my error if I spill it on my face. Thank goodness no one is legislating that.

Perhaps if you are so good at determining that my objections are not valid, you may be able to supply some objections which are valid as an example. I'm just trying to learn here. Please, give an example.

Oh, so they don't want it is a valid objection, but my personal reasons why I don't want it are not valid. OK. I've learned something.

Why?
-j
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People had the same worries about airbags in cars. False discharges, failure to discharge, injuries from discharges... all happened sometimes. But the odds were (and still are) that they save enough in injuries to be worthwhile. The big problem for manufacturers is that you can not retrofit these easily on existing designs. There is a big cost to redesign to accommodate SawStop.
That being said, if the technology works and is, when in wide use, under $150 in extra cost, it will be on the large majority of saws within 10 years. The case for reducing the risk of disfiguring, disabling, painful, expensive injuries would be too compelling for manufacturers or the feds to ignore.
J wrote:

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No doubt. But it appears that they are having trouble that this is the case.
-j
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In typed: <snip nonsense>

Replacing the cartridge is as easy as changing the blade. I don't know where you get that it has to be shipped here and there and everywhere...

Average reaction time when feeding your hand into a saw blade is 2.5 fingers. At that point you might as well throw them into the garbage.

read it thoroughly?
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typed:

If you are here, and the replacement cartridge is there, then how does the replacement cartridge get to you? Can it walk? Do they have an alternate method which doesn't involve shipping? It is basic engineering that the more complex the system, the more opportunities there are for failure. I'm not making that up.

Is it really? Can you show me where you got this data from, or are you just making things up?

Yes. Perhaps you can show me where it says that the device is user-serviceable. Just because it is in a cartridge does not mean that it is user-serviceable. Their site has a fair amount of speculation to it. It has been that way for a long time. This makes me think that they are not progressing well. Since you are so familiar with it, please point out the part where it says they are user serviceable.
-j
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