Rethinking "Made in China"

Page 3 of 7  
On Dec 16, 7:26pm, Dave Balderstone

Not to discount the contribution of these aforementioned Canadian engineers but realistically how many were enticed to come to the US AND how many US scientists and engineers were working at NASA at the time? (also consider the number of S & E's working for contractors as well)
Did these Canadian engineers represent 1%? 5% 10% 25% ?
cheers Bob
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A person I know very well and whose comments I value, is a materials buyer for one of the largest, global, manufacturing companies in the world. He deals with many vendors in many nations to get the materials to build large computer-type devices sold globally. He deals with Pacific Rim vendors and manufacturers daily, including mainland China.
He explained his belief of why dealing with the Pacific Rim/Chinese vendors is so different than dealing with European vendors. In summary, it's the Judeo/Christian teachings vs. the Buddhist/Confucian/Hindu etc. teachings about lying. He told me that we're all taught that we should always tell the truth and trade honestly, where the Chinese-type vendors don't believe it's bad to lie or cheat on a transaction. To them, the shame (loss of face) comes from getting caught- not if they get away with it.
His personal technique is to order from a vendor and stage serious inspections both at the production site and upon receipt of the items. If there is even the slightest discrepancy, he has his people throw a fit. The product is returned, screaming phone calls are made, threats to never deal with them again are made, upstream and downstream vendors are notified and even government officials are brought into the fray. The goal is to send the message to the manufacturer or vendor that cheating will be caught and the maximum amount of embarrassment (loss of face) will be extracted. Once the fray has died down, the new vendor will usually supply what is negotiated and ordered for a while. Then, the cycle starts all over again.
BTW, the Japanese have a similar technique that seldom fails. For instance, let's use lumber as an example. When a US/Canadian vendor decides to sell hardwood in Japan, the buyer will ask the vendor for a graded sample of the materials. It's not at all uncommon in our own culture to select samples that showcase our product in its best light. This doesn't work with the Japanese, however. When the shipment reaches Japan, the hardwood is judged against the sample, the matching or better material is kept and anything substandard is returned. There is no compromise for a bell-shaped grading curve: it's the sample-or-better side of the curve, only. Many a new vendor has learned a hard lesson about that little cultural difference.
The last example is about a US built product that is sold by one company in the US and another in Japan. Both come off the same assembly line, but with different tags on them: USA or Japan names. The item shipped to Japan is literally invaded by inspectors for the buyer, and even things like fingerprints on the inside of the cabinet rate down marks. . . enough of which and the product is returned. There are different standards, beyond performance, that affect Japanese-bound items.
--
Nonny

ELOQUIDIOT (n) A highly educated, sophisticated,
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wrote:

How about roughly the top 10%?????????
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Dave Balderstone wrote:

Didn't they all come here to Alabamastan to work on them dang rockets?
TDD
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Heh heh.... and I doubt there were too many folks named Homer Hickam defecting to the US from the Nazi rocket program.
nb
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Considering that they were getting a better offer than staying in Canada, the numbers may not be so suprising. What may be suprising is the number of Canadian sientists that Canada could not hold on to.
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wrote:

The Canadian Aerospace industry evaporated overnight, and NASA and the US companies snatched up the best aerospace workers as part of the deal.
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wrote:

And Canada's. All the brains behind the Avro Arrow put the Yanks into space and onto the moon. Strategic move on the part of the Americans to pressure Dief into canning the Arrow.
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"CW" wrote:

The same is true of digital photography and fiber optics.
Both developed in the US by non US citizens.
Lew
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Not quite... The CCD was developed by Boyle, one of us (Canuck) and Smith, one of you (Murrican). The Nobel went to both.
Ref: <http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/physics/laureates/2009/info_publ_phy _09_en.pdf>
Careful, Lew. You're moving into our Canadian self-deprecation territory and you do NOT want to infringe on that. We can be SERIOUS about that.
;-)
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Most any fool knows there are exceptions to everything ... it is the thickheaded cavilers who continue to harp on the exceptions to show their asses and ignorance.
Arguably, we were standing on the shoulders of giants when it came to innovative engineering and quality, for much, if not most of "New World" engineering impetus which resulted in the much vaunted "Made in USA" label of the 20th century, was due to European immigration to the America's, bringing their traditions going back to craftsman's guilds and their pioneering of early engineering principles in Europe since Roman times.
AAMOF, Canada, almost alone in the America's today with products like Veritas, seems to still exhibit manifestations of these traditions; instead of the price point engineered, MBA driven POS being produced by Chinese proxy for the United Corporations of America.
As far as many woodworking tools today, it is a FACT that if you really want quality, innovation, and excellence in engineering, you look first to European manufacturers like Festool, a shining example of innovation and quality through engineering which you will find no place else on earth in this, the first decade of the 21st century.
It's sad, but a fact ...
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....as opposed to baseless dogma spewed by narrow minded twits who refuse to see beyond personal prejudices.
nb
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notbob wrote:

Nice self description there, nutbob ... well done!
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Lew Hodgett wrote:

Who? Educated where?
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On 12/16/2009 4:33 PM, HeyBub wrote:

They were concerned that something integral to their national defense systems was under the exclusive control of the US.
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Tim Daneliuk snipped-for-privacy@tundraware.com
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Yeah, Japanese saws suck.
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"Swingman" wrote:

------------------------------------------- During my days on the design board in the late 50s, had several European immigrants in my design group.
They would spend all kinds of time designing complex weldments to use the least amount of material but usually involved lots of welding time.
It was understandable.
Europe had been flattened during WWII and materials were scarce in Europe.
Had to constantly remind these guys that the equipment we were designing was being sold by the pound, not the complexity of design.
Lew
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What nonsense. I've had plenty of Euro made items that were junk, including German made. Italy makes enough crap to drag the whole continent's curve below avg! ;)
nb
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notbob wrote:

What nonsense? ... you can't be that dense, eh? Shit happens in every country, culture, civilization - past, present, and future.

Then there's my handmade, Omer pin nailer, one of the best engineered nail guns that money can buy, made in Italy.
Once again, there is NOTHING like it, and it is "European engineered".
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"Swingman" wrote:

===================================Depends.
Germans build most of the cars. Italians sew some great shoes and great hand built cars, tailored suits and what great food. I wouldn't want a car built by the French. The Dutch provide some great chocolate manufacturing machinery. Then there are the Swiss. If you have to ask, you can't afford. So it depends. ============================== Having represented several European instrument manufacturers over the years, it is obvious they have a whole different way of looking at things.
Europeans expect to perform routine maintenance on a regular basis, while for the most part US users have adopted the Andrew Carnegie approach of install the equipment, run it till it drops, remove to the junk yard, and install new equipment.
Most European equipment will not survive without regular maintenance, USA goods OTOH, usually will for an extended period of time.
BTDT, no T-shirt needed.
Lew
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