O/T: Protection

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wrote:

I have an adjustable cane I bought for $20 that does a real nice imitation.
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snipped-for-privacy@jecarter.us wrote:

Your last suggestion, an attack dog, has a great deal of merit. Your other two suggestions border on a death wish.
There are a significant number of people on whom pepper spray has no effect - in particular most speed-freaks. Your next suggestion generates the headline: "He brought a flashlight to a knife fight."
The only effective deterrent to an attack is a firearm. Period.
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Matt wrote:

Uh, is it lawful to spray someone with pepper spray?
As for spraying someone with bug spray being a violation of Federal law, I'd like to see an example of someone being successfully prosecuted under Federal law for dousing an assailant with bug spray.
In point of fact anything you do may result in a lawsuit, including the use of pepper spray.
Just remember, "It is better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6".
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On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 18:46:59 -0500, "J. Clarke"

Except of course that the manufacturer of the pepper spray will stand behind its certification that it will cause no permanent harm. The courts, criminal and civil, all take that into account. Many state and local laws specify what is "legal" pepper spray and declare all other substances illegal to use for self defense.

I just love it when someone thinks the law will be applied the way THEY think makes sense. They are invariably wrong, but theior theories make for entertaining reading.
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snipped-for-privacy@dog.com wrote:

And of course we all know that manufacturers of products are credible witnesses regarding their safety (can you say "Pinto").

Please provide an example of a state law that says that it is prohibited to _use_ any specific substance for self defense. The ones that I have seen regulate sale or possession, not use. I have never heard of any law which enumerates what is and is not an acceptable means of self-defense.

So you're saying that it's better to be dead than to be tried for dousing an assailant with bug spray? If so then quite frankly you're a damned fool.
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On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 09:32:49 -0500, "J. Clarke"

I don't think you understand the point.

Please provide an example of a state that doesn't have a definition for pepper spray used in self defense and what it can contain.

I'm saying you haven't even the beginning of a clue on this subject. Trying to move the goalposts isn't working for you, either.
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snipped-for-privacy@dog.com wrote:

You're asserting that the laws exist, it's up to you to present one. Not one that says what may be _sold_ but what may be _used_.

I see, you just basically don't understand that "tried by 12" means taken to court while "carried by 6" means buried.
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J. Clarke wrote:

It would probably be tied to intent. If you got an avaricious prosecutor whose view is that it is up to the police to protect the public and he/she wanted to make a case of it, if he/she could show that you had the bug spray *specifically* to use for self-defense (i.e., intent), then he/she might go after you for that. If on the other hand, you grabbed the bug spray just because it was the closest thing to hand and you were in danger, you were simply using the most expedient article available for your self-defense.

... and that's the point, isn't it. There was a recent 911 call put on the internet of a woman in Oklahoma whose home was being broken into. The whole call was heartrending, you could tell this woman did not want to take a life, but the sheriff was minutes away while the perp was trying to get into her house. She was forced to shoot the perp when he broke through the patio door. She was devastated, but at least alive -- that's what the 911 operator kept telling her -- you have to protect yourself. The guy was high on something and could very easily have killed this woman for a few bucks to get his next fix.
--

There is never a situation where having more rounds is a disadvantage

Rob Leatham
  Click to see the full signature.
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Mark & Juanita wrote:

(nudge-nudge, wink-wink)
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HeyBub wrote:

You really want a gun ban don't you?
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J. Clarke wrote:

Me? Hell no! I carry a Glock 9mm and a .22 BUG (Back-up gun). I've got either a Glock 10mm or .40 cal stashed in almost every room. We won't even talk about the car. I've also got some armament that can "reach out and touch someone."
I live in a fairly backward state (Texas) that won't allow open carry or guns on campus.
I hold that all citizens should demonstrate acceptable marksmanship before being allowed to vote or own taxable property and that the laws on justifiable homicide be relaxed to include people who smell funny.
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HeyBub wrote:

If you don't want a gun ban then stop using inflammatory rhetoric that makes you look like the sort of nutcake that the gun control advocates want people to believe are typical firearms owners. You're playing into a stereotype here.
And before you say "freedom of speech" consider that every right carries with it a duty to use that right responsibly.
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J. Clarke wrote:

Because I offered a hint about BUG SPRAY? You raised up on your hinder legs over BUG SPRAY? You accuse me of outrageous pro-gun comments when we were talking about BUG SPRAY? Guns weren't mentioned until you brought it up. Listen up, slick, there's a big difference between a firearm and BUG SPRAY - even a pro-gun nutter like me knows that. As to stereotype, I don't think there IS a stereotype for exterminators. Well, Tom Delay excepted.

First, every "right" I have imposes a "duty" on the government, not me. If I have a right to worship as I please, the state has a duty not to interfere. If I have a "right" to freedom of speech, the government has a duty to not impose unreasonable restrictions. For constitutional rights, the methodology is called "strict scrutiny."
Second, "freedom of speech" (actually the "duty" to not suppress) applies only to a government entity, not newsgroups.
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HeyBub wrote:

No, because you continue to mouth off like Johnny Carson parodying a hunter.

You have a duty to use your rights responsibly. Right now with all the inflammatory rhetoric you are making a fool of yourself, which you are welcome to do, but you are also serving as an embarrassment to others in your own camp.

Which is irrelevant to the point.
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J. Clarke wrote:

Johnny Carson is dead.

Inflammatory rhetoric? I offered a hint about BUG SPRAY. Nothing inflammatory about it, unless you want to light up the chemicals. You're the one who tried to veer the conversation toward guns and duty and rights and freedom of speech (the last three items about which you evidently know little).
Now if you are in the same "camp" as I, and you are embarrassed, I suggest you own the problem, not me.

Jeeze! YOU'RE the one who brought up "freedom of speech." Now you're saying a topic you initiated is irrelevant!
Since you're so keen on offering unsolicited advice, let's see if you can take some. Don't torment the alligators.
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HeyBub wrote:

So you're going to shoot them between the eyes with .44 caliber BUG SPRAY <wink wink nudge nudge>?

Many who make fools of themselves think that the foolishness is on the part of those who are laughing at them. When the government decides to repeal the First Amendment I _will_ be saying "I told you so".

No, its applicability to government, not newsgroups, is irrelevant.

When an alligator shows up I'll bear that in mind.
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J. Clarke wrote:

You're the one who brought up guns. I don't think I can be fairly criticized for expanding the topic you initiated. If you don't want to be subject to contrarian views, don't create molehills.

So now it's humor, not embarrassment? You have the attention span of kitten in a box of packing peanuts. You keep switching emphasis trying, without hope, to find a topic on which your logic can prevail. Give it up.

Pay attention, slick, the concept of "Freedom of Speech" applies ONLY to the government. Should you want to express the view that one is unrestrained to post personal views somewhere, use that phrase, not one owned by the Constitution.

And I will continue to deny your allegations and damn the alligator.
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HeyBub wrote:

You clearly are incapable of following a conversation and when it is suggested to you that your style of argument does more harm than good you simply go on the attack. I find reviewing your posting history that you have made one post in the past six months that actually has anything to do with woodworking. That being the case I'm not wasting any more time on your bombastic drivel, slick.
<plonk>
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J. Clarke wrote:

True, I've not made many (if any) posts on woodworking. I follow the conversations here and learn from my betters on the subject. Still, when some ELSE posts something that is absurd, wrong, or just plain insane, I'm not about to let it stand unchallenged. I'm sure your research recognized that.
Now the original topic started off with methods for protection. Someone suggested bug spray. I agreed. Then, in succession, you brought up guns, embarrassment, humor, freedom of speech, and the inability to follow a train of thought. Then, either in a fit of pique or an example of ADD, you interject that I'm an idiot in a completely unrelated thread.
After knocking on several doors and unable to gain entry to the halls of knowledge, you give up an retire. Sorry to see you go; it's been fun.
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wrote:

The reasoning behind the wasp spray is that it has a longer range. Don't need to get as close. The pepper spry is likely more effective ( ever rubbed your eye without thinking while slicing jalapinos. If you havnt, don't GHIKT) but has an effective range of about three feet. The wasp spray is good for ten.

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