O/T: Amazing

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wrote:

Sorry to hear about your wife passing. These aren't easy things and times, but I think that if prospects for a good life are diminishing, thought needds to be given to what you call comfort care - a good phrase, because comfort is what's needed for all concerned. Good thoughts going your way ...
--
Best regards
Han
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On Tue, 03 Jul 2012 09:03:49 -0500, basilisk wrote:

Sorry to hear of your wife's death. But your way makes a lot more sense than having someone spend their last days being wheeled from one painful treatment to another.
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

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On 7/1/2012 6:27 AM, Han wrote:

That is another "logically?" part of this mess. First place a tax on the poorest people among us and then write 100 pages of code setting up a system so they don't pay it.
Bottom line for obama, either except the fact that he has placed taxes on the poor (he still claims its a penalty.) OR accept that his mess is un constitutional, as he can not claim the commerce clause as a reason for the tax. (The only other clause that Congress has is the ability to tax. court not me)
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I believe people are entitled to the insurance. If at all possible they should pay for it. Ultimately I believe that quality of life will be better, and cost less than when you let them muddle on. The only alternative would be to a) provide work for all and b) pay wages to cover life's expenses. Of course getting rid of the lawyers and bureaucrats would help too ...
--
Best regards
Han
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On 7/1/2012 8:27 AM, Dave wrote:

Before the government got involved the family with the help of the community handle problems where the family could not afford health care.
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On 7/2/2012 10:15 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:

The socialist elements have created an environment that promotes "me"ism. Before the socialist programs, as a last resort each individual knew that he HAD to depend on family and the people around him. With the socialist programs this has changed, and now the last resort is a government program.
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This isn't a socialist or capitalist concept. In the stone ages, the tribe was the insurance for the individual's well-being. If there was a use for the sick, old or infirm, they'd keep them alive. If the individual was a drag on society, I have been told the Eskimo would go outside and freeze. In modern society, insurance has been invented to help in case of rare occurances (sp?) where the individual might not have the resources to correct what has gone wrong.
The true problem is that if you get sick or have an accident, we as society have ordained that caring for that individual is paramount, and worrying about the costs secondary. That is very well and altruistic, but it leaves out the problem when there is no money available to pay for that care. Currently, there is a surcharge for hospital costs to help pay for those indigent. If you will, a tax or penalty on people with the foresight to have insurance, or able to pay without, so that the indigent can be cared for. I like the proposed system where everyone is urged to be responsible and get insurance much better.
--
Best regards
Han
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I'm a cynic too. However, it should be easier to smoke out collusion and malfeasance in a single system. Unfortunately, the system is a mashup of private companies doing the insuring and federal mandates for coverage. That, I agree, is not a good recipe.
If the aggregate costs of healthcare are the same in 2 different ways of administering it, it should boil down to the same thing - altogether, we as the sum toal of all the insured (or uninsured) should be paying the same grand total. But that assumes that bureacratic costs are the same. Having experienced the clusterfuck that the billing is nowadays (I really have had minimal trouble) and somehow understanding the thinking of the clerks, I have no confidence in the current convoluted way of doing things. Hopefully it will get smoother with Obamacare. I'm still hoping!!
This morning, my haircutter girl at the neighborhood new Great Clips made a mistake in entering data into the cash register. Now she had to pull out the calculator to subtract $7.01 from $14.00. I'm just saying ...
--
Best regards
Han
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On Mon, 2 Jul 2012 15:30:23 -0400, "Mike Marlow"

Were from another era, I rattle their cages by usually telling them the change owed before the cash register. They never learned to do it in their head. I've held on to my slide ruler I'll be a genius if a major solar storm wipes out the computers. LOL
Mike M
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On 7/2/2012 10:13 PM, Mike M wrote:

You could power a scientific hand calculator with a couple of lemons.
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On Mon, 2 Jul 2012 09:59:01 -0600, Han wrote

I agree with an earlier poster that it is basically bookkeeping, we pay no matter what (more taxes or higher premiums). What really bugs me is calling all this crap 'insurance'. Insurance is coverage for unexpected events (i.e. flood insurance, auto comprehensive, etc.). No auto policy will cover oil changes and tune ups for free (like the assortment of no-copay things in the AHA). Auto insurance also won't cover (or at least charge a much higher premium) for drivers who have a terrible driving record. Also, can anyone name an auto insurance that will accept previous damage, i.e I'm uninsured and get into a wreck, then buy a policy and get the damages paid for)?
How about making health insurance more like auto insurance. I choose the coverage I want (I don't opt for the free birth control and breast reconstruction coverage, thank you), and I can shop around. Can anybody name a health insurance company with better customer service than an auto insurance company?
If the government wants to meddle, they can subsidize some of the routine stuff (mammograms, vaccines, etc.) directly to the doctors. In God we trust, all others pay cash.
-BR

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I think you hit the nail on the head. The copays are comparable to paying for the oil change, while car or health insurance is for accidents. However, it easily gets more complicated. Now when you buy a car, there sometimes is free maintenance for x months. That would be comparable to free checkups, inoculations, and, yes, free birth control (getting an unplanned baby is much more expensive for parents and society than a few free pills).
I have also said that compulsory health insurance should be some form of basic coverage, and plans to add other stuff to be covered should be standardized and available. Seems some of that exists for Medicare plans and the much ballyhooed supplementals. If all that can be standardized across the country, then things become much more easily comparable.
--
Best regards
Han
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On Tue, 03 Jul 2012 15:12:15 +0000, Han wrote:

I've suggested all along to gradually expand Medicare till it covers everyone. But there wasn't a chance in hell of getting that past all the special interests and through congress.
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

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UHC, Aetna, Blue Shield, et. al. etc. u.s.w.
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On 03 Jul 2012 18:27:35 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:

AARP
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On Tue, 03 Jul 2012 14:16:49 -0400, Mike Marlow wrote:

Just about anyone who makes a living from exorbitantly priced supplies, pills, procedures, insurance policies, etc.. And let us never forget the ambulance chasers and all the hospitals being converted from non-profit to for-profit.
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

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On 7/2/2012 11:42 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:

As I read what you read, I believe our disagreement is a chicken and egg issue of which came first? "me"ism caused socialist think OR socialist thinking caused "me"ism.
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On 7/2/2012 1:41 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:

Socialism promotes and encourages "me" ism, but "me"ism is an integral component of human nature.
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Socialism is an economic system characterised by social ownership and/or control of the means of production and cooperative management of the economy, and a political philosophy advocating such a system.
There is not a single politician in the United States that advocates the above, nor is social security, safety nets, welfare, common defense, or medicare 'socialism' in any sense of the word.
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On 7/2/2012 3:54 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:

That's only one definition. Socialism is also a political system where the government controls the means of production. Every step that government takes to regulate or control any part of the economy is a step in the direction of socialism. Obamacare is a great big fat step toward socializing the U.S. health care system.
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