O/T: Amazing

Keith Nuttle wrote in news:jslk8o$69v$ snipped-for-privacy@speranza.aioe.org:

Yes, the benefits are what kept me in the job for far longer than I really wanted at times (and I was scared of failing to find a stable job with kids who wanted college). What is unfair is that the company also gets a tax break on those premiums, it's not just a freebie to you. Freelancers don't get that break, plus they have difficulty getting into a group with reduced premiums.

Reply to
Han
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Dave wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Seems there should be a mechanism for unemployed to keep up with the insurance. Probably is in the law. If not, there should be some subsidy to keep you in the system.

There is something wrong with a system that doesn't give you a living wage, and that includes health insurance premiums. Similar to the complaints that "poor" people don't pay taxes, even if they were working. "Welfare" is what they get in the form of tax rebates because of being poor. If people need to pay taxes (and I am in favor of that), then we need to pay them wages that would cover those taxes (and health insurance premiums). Either a recipe for inflation or class warfare, take your pick.

Reply to
Han

Keith Nuttle wrote in news:jslkvv$7tt$ snipped-for-privacy@speranza.aioe.org:

The compliance regulations and the time it took to comply with the nonsense (changing every 3 months) is what drove me to retirement. No miore faldera for me!

(much snipped)

Reply to
Han

Plan F. No deductible, no co-pay, no paperwork. Most expensive option though. Has some coverage for foreign travel too. Varies by state and insurance but my cost is $230/month.

For those of you nearing Medicare time, a given plan, Plan F, Plan C, etc are all the same no matter who the provider is. Rates may vary, but the plan is the same.

Reply to
Ed Pawlowski

And add about $30/month for plan D (drugs).

Not a bad deal, but with Obamacare, certain to go up drastically. The biggie for retired folks is the half trillion bucks that will come out of medicare to help pay for Obamacare. That will make the supplementals go up in price to cover the difference,

The biggie for the younger generation is the ten years of taxes to pay for 6 years of benefits. The next ten years after that will be a real shocker.

Reply to
Doug Winterburn

Why should the company not get a tax break on the insurance that it buys for its employees. Employees are part of the manufacturing system upkeep of that system is a cost of producing the item being manufactured. If a machine breaks the cost of the repair is a tax deduction. If it hires an outside contractor to repair the machine, the contractor is a business expense and is a deduction. As an employee you are part of the manufacturing system. The insurance the company buys to cover you is an outside contractor that gets deducted.

With out tax breaks for maintenance of the production system the cost of the item to the consumer would be significantly higher.

I believe what people fail to realize is the cost of benefits for an employee. I worked for a small company in the 90's and at that time the benefit package was calculated into our budgets at 40% of the employee's salary or hourly rate. A big chunk of that was insurance. It probably is a larger percent to day with obamacare and all of the other government regulation covering an employee.

Reply to
Keith Nuttle

Keith Nuttle wrote in news:jsmp5u$g3s$ snipped-for-privacy@speranza.aioe.org:

All true, but it leaves out the sole proprietor, small businessman and the freelancer. They don't get the tax deduction and/or the favorable group rates. In a market economy I'd consider that unfair. In a state- controlled system, well, all bets are off.

Level the rates, level the tax treatment, and make sure the buyer bewares.

Oh, yes, at Cornell Medical College there were yearly determinations of the costs of fringe benefits. Because postdocs were getting much less in benefits, there benefit cost was much less than the technicians' and the professional staffs', which was generally around 30% IIRC.

Reply to
Han

Han wrote in news:XnsA0825A106FA16ikkezelf@216.151.153.55:

That's what was billed to the granting agencies. Of course, there was also a general "overhead" of 70% of total.

Reply to
Han

Agreed.

You forgot to mention the drug companies. You know that R&D expense they're always harping on? Turns out most of it is spent analyzing how to modify a competitors product just enough that they can bring out their own version. Very little is spent on developing new drugs.

Reply to
Larry Blanchard

From what I read, financial assistance will be provided to low income families and waivers are provided to the truly poverty stricken.

Reply to
Larry Blanchard

I went with B. No co-pay or paperwork, but doesn't pay the doctors deductible. It does pay the hospital deductible. I found that the difference between B and C was greater than the cost of the deductible. And yes, C does cover a few other things but I though those were minor.

We pay about $140 each thru AARP. I don't remember what you get additional for F over and above the deductible, but I didn't think it was worth an extra $90 a month.

Reply to
Larry Blanchard

Like building codes, auto insurance, food inspections, etc?

They already are. The hospitals force you to pay for the free treatment they give to those who can't or won't pay. What's the difference?

Reply to
Larry Blanchard

State or local as it should be. Read the 10th amendment.

Non federal government. Read the 10th amendment.

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Reply to
Doug Winterburn

I can't belive that Grants Pass would be to any significantly way different than Boise, ID (where we are) or White Salmon, WA (where we were).

What you are not seeing in those itemized bills is how much the surgeon is took home. Nor what the the anesthesiologist took home. Nor what the surgical nurse took home. Nor what the vast legions of support nursing staff, medical records clerks, billing clerks, insurance relations staff, administrators and janitors. In the tiny 20 bed hospital in White Salmon I daresay that every surgery was paying the salaries of easily 30 people.

Again, don't heap the entire bill upon the guy doing the actual work. He may be getting a good chunk of it, but to some degree he earned it. After all the lowest of general surgeons spent 4 years as a undergradate education,

4 years of medical school and 5+ years of residency and internship. Thats to say nothing of required annual continuing edation. If I had 13+ years of education, I'd like to be paid a bit more too.

By the way, according to

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median income of physicans and surgeons is about $80 an hour. I used to make more than that doing private computer consulting.

Reply to
Frank Stutzman

If the tax account does his job properly sole proprietor and small businessman can be considered an employee and the company can get the same benefits.

The freelancer is an independent contractor and have their own deductions. Such as deducting that new computer you want and say it is needed to conduct your freelance business.

Reply to
Keith Nuttle

Except the cost of maintaining a staff of regulatory experts to guide the drug through the FDA approval process, the cost of the required testing to demonstrate the drug is effective, safe, and a host of other things, such as the lethal limit testing, environmental test require for manufacturing discharges, etc. When you consider that to get a drug through FDA review and approval, there must be 100 of animal test, and many people must use the drug and the data collected analyses.

If the drug is a biologic the organism must be created and it must be characterized. Long chain protein characterization is not easy with

1000's of carbon atoms in the molecule.

Before a drug can become approved, multiple lots of the drug must be manufactured by the planned procedures that are submitted to FDA review and the manufacture drug shown it is equivalent to the lab drug. These lots can not be sold and are destroyed.

Before manufacturing can begin other permits must be obtained, or reviews made the EPA, OSHA, and a host of other alphabets agencies on the local, state, and federal level.

This does not include the R&D expense of the many drugs that are found and never make it to be consider as a possible candidate for the medical system. For every one drug the is seen as a potential candidate for the drug industry, 1000 are required to be chemically constructed, and evaluated.

If these cost could not be deducted from the drug sales, new drugs would be prohibitively expensive and would not come on the market.

YES there is a lot of patient avoidance research, but where do you think the generic drugs that are approved comes from? They too have development cost.

Reply to
Keith Nuttle

You need to talk to an insurance agent that has access to several different companies, and compare the cost for what you are getting.

Especially watch the out-of-pocket expense maximum and the deductible. For some companies these items are additive. ie. if your out-of-pocket maximum is 3000 and your maximum deductible is 3000 you will have to come up with 6000 if the cost of the procedure is large enough.

Reply to
Keith Nuttle

Keith Nuttle wrote in news:jsndfu$1j7$ snipped-for-privacy@speranza.aioe.org:

That assumes they get the same preferential treatment of their premium from the insurance company as a big company does. Rather presumptious and naive (I think, but I haven't checked it out).

That is separate from health insurance, right?

Reply to
Han

Doug Winterburn wrote in news:4fef3348$0$1291$c3e8da3$ snipped-for-privacy@news.astraweb.com:

If I get charged an 8.5% surcharge (even if the insurance company pays it, I ultimately pay via my premiums), it is immaterial whether it is a federal or local charge. It is money out my pocket.

Reply to
Han

The subsidies in Obamacare go up to 400% of the poverty level (currently $88K, for a family of four).

Reply to
krw

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