Nonsense. That what you refer to is communism, not socialism. A common,
but really bad misconception.
Obamacare is one possible response to a malfunctioning healthcare
insurance system. Any other system that would achieve equitable premiums
and equitable risk stratification would be worth looking at. One (just
one) of the problems in achieving equitable <fill in> is that people
would like to get something for nothing.
"I'm not sick now, why pay for health insurance I don't need?"
Fine, but then institute a system where you would get penalized in person
if you then do need it. And none of that I'll pay later stuff, or my
family or friends will pay. Cash in advance of treatment, and fast.
There is somewhat of an analogy. In some areas, fire protection is by
subscription. Sometimes, people with little means cannot afford $50/year
(or whatever) to pay. Then, when their trailer catches fire, the fire
truck comes and stands by to protect people next door who did pay, and
watch the trailer burn out. I believe there was in instance where the
firemen even refused to help out when immediate payment of arrears where
offered. This type of story is why I think that the municipality should
offer fire protection and bill through property taxes for the costs of
keeping fire fighting equipment.
Fortunately, medical care that is really needed is provided prior to
asking for payment. If there were really compulsory insurance as in some
version of Obamacare, those payment problems disappear, and there is no
need for collection agencies.
This is not communism, or socialism, but personal responsibility, if
necessary enforced. It is similar to not allowing people to go naked
across public streets.
Seems that is what people who do not have (for whatever reason) insurance
are saying. It's too expensive, I'm betting I won't get sick. And I am
NOT now saying this is an employee of a big corporation, but perhaps the
half-time employee who is not eligible for benefits.
Please reconsider what you just stated. Many have been put in a position
that makes them ineligible for health insurance (the costs of benefits is
a consideration in hiring part-time rather than full-time employees).
So, you are told (as a colleague was), sorry Mike we can't afford to pay
you full-time anymore, so please consider doing the same work but getting
only half the money, and by the way, no benefits. The only way to get
health insurance then is via COBRA, at $1000/mo or so. You'll have to
think - if I don't pay, I may never get coverage again, because then I'll
have some pre-existing condition.
You are denying the usefulness of insurance? Then it is an installment
tax, either pay in full each time you get sick, or pay the weekly
installments according to what the actuaries say you'll eventually pay.
Sorry, I was off, it was $75. Just google for this:
"fire truck stands by as trailer burns"
The first link is
I agree. Just plain stupid. But it's indeed a big country.
Sorry, Mike. Here in NJ (07410) the fire equipment is paid for by the
municipality, while the firemen are volunteers. I don't know how their
training and personal equipment is paid, but there are fundraisers almost
year round. Such as this:
I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt. I can believe that a poor
family didn't have the $75 to pay the fee when it became due, and then
forgot to put it on a priority list to pay. I'm NOT saying these people
were smart, but perhaos they did outsmart themselves.
That's a rather biblical remark (that's a denigrating term here). If the
parents are too stupid or drunk to take care of their housing, why do
their children have to suffer? (Remember, I'm a tax and spend liberal - I
believe the fire should have been put out and the parents made to pay,
tax or whip).
It's getting late, sorry if I offend.
They shouldn't. The children should be taken out of the home and put into a
home where they will be treated as children should be. Then the parents
should be thrown in prison for child abuse. Simple. If you want to do
something more appropriate to the abusers, we can discuss that too.
This is the Usenet. If that's the most offensive you can be, you don't stand
a chance. ;-)
On Mon, 02 Jul 2012 08:32:42 -0400, Keith Nuttle wrote:
No family? No friends, or at least none better off than you? To the
poorhouse! Which, BTW, was run by the local/county/state government.
Now it's federal. Why? Because the state politicians figured out it was
safer to blame taxes on the feds so they wouldn't be responsible.
When I was a child, we had a name for the homeless - we called them
"escapees from the insane asylum" - want to go back to that?
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw
On Tue, 03 Jul 2012 22:16:04 -0400, " firstname.lastname@example.org"
Or unfix the fix from a few years ago. Many people were in
institutions, but that was deemed harsh and an infringement on rights.
It was for some, but others were incapable of caring for themselves
and found a worse fate
Roberts brought up the "tax" or penalty of 1% if you have no
insurance. If you are in the higher income bracket, you probably have
coverage either through your employer or you can afford it.
On the lower end, you have to make a big decision. If you are trying
to raise a family on $30k, you can either pay a penalty of $300 or you
can buy insurance for maybe $8000 to $12,000.
And those that can't afford that and or the illegals will still pay
nothing resulting in our government going farther into dept. All that
at a cost to buy votes form the growing population of the ignorant.
The fed govt will pick up the tab for the first 5 yrs, then the burden
of cost will be placed on the states, which most are already budget
crunching. Managing the system will become a nightmare, I predict,
and no one knows what the insurance companies have in store to add to
the confusion (and mismanagement?).
With the democrats proudly stating that obama is the first president in
the last 100 years to place a TAX DIRECTLY ON the LOWEST INCOME PORTION
of our population, if they don't buy insurance, this should be an
interesting election year.
The obamacare will increase the cost of medical care. The most obvious
is the 2.3% increase on medical devices. For those of you who have not
read the Federal Register's FDA's GMPs, medical devices are everything
associated with the practice of medicine. Everything from band aids to
MRI machines. All of the software in every computer used in the
monitoring of patients is a medical device. All of the items that the
doctor uses when you visit his office or the nurse uses when you visit
the clinic. All of the things that a person uses as part of the
medicines they use at home, such as the instruments used to monitor
sugar, AND the strips used in these machines.
The obamacare create a second government agency, Patient-centered
outcomes research, to compete with the current FDA. All of the things
it is suppose to be responsible for is currently part of the FDA's
approval and review of medical devices and drugs. So now we have to
government agencies controlling the medical industry, each with their
own paper work and regulations that will add to the cost of the medicine
The cost of all of the new reporting system that are being imposed on
the medical industry will also add to the cost.
It is my understand that the basic $100/month medical insurance cost
deducted from your social security will go up to over 300 dollars per
month under obamacare. Private insurance will either go up or the
coverage will be reduced. That is a tripling of your direct medical
You state taxes will go up as obamacare will try to force the states to
expand the money that obamacare says they should spend. Many of the
things that the obamacare is placing on the states is not funded by the
Federal government and the money will come from the state and local
We will look back and think the doubling of the national debit since the
social democrats took control of Congress in 2006 as the good old days,
when the national debit balloons to 20 to 50 trillion dollar range and
your state and local government go bankrupt to cover the cost of obamacare.
NOW TELL ME HOW OBAMA CARE WILL REDUCE COST.
No, those who can't afford it don't get coverage, they only get a
But Obamacare adds 20,000 new IRS agents and 140 new gov't agencies
and Crom knows what else. Nobody has read the entire 2,471+ pages yet,
I don't think. It's 1,147,271 words long.
Always bear in mind that your own resolution to
succeed is more important than any one thing.
-- Abraham Lincoln
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