New Woodworker

[Bill in Detroit]

Aha! Something we can agree on! ... ALL of my relatives are cheap!

;-)

Bill

[Lew Hodgett]

If you can also hear them coming from 5 miles away, they are not only cheap, they are cheap and tight.

Lew

[Bill in Detroit]

Well, they are usually pretty tight, but nothing they can't sleep off. 'Course, I stopped letting them sleep in the dog house because they kept giving the dog fleas.

Bill

[Lew Hodgett]

Had an uncle who was so tight he squeaked.

You could hear him coming from 5 miles away.

So cheap he never drank, even other peoples.

Lew

[Bruce Barnett]

Versailles? Nice place, but a triffle gaudy.

[Swingman]

Chateau de Chenonceau ... but the same applies. Things probably smelled so bad as a rule that "gaudy" was a relief.

[CW]

What you say about the fence is true. I had a Craftsman saw for years with a less than good fence. Could do good work with it, just had to be careful. Makes you appreciate a nice one when you get it.

[CW]

No, he'll just do it faster.

[Brian Henderson]

It'll just make it easier, it won't make the work better. Try again.

[J. Clarke]

If you stack the deck far enough you can always contrive a scenario in which all skill is in vain. That seems to be what your correspondent is attempting. But such scenarios generally have little relevance to the real world.

[CW]

And he'll do things faster than he did before. So, speed is what you're after?

[Robatoy]

But why bother? Just for toy value?

[Lew Hodgett]

Not really.

It has long been established that human beings do a lousy job with repetitive tasks, that's why automation, thus tooling.

Basic advantage of the human is a brain.

Biggest problem is getting them to use it.

Lew

[CW]

[Upscale]

You're wrong. Human beings make errors. Quality tools for the most part contribute to minimizing those errors. A lower quality tool takes extra care to get it to work properly and humans being the imperfect beings they are will sometimes neglect or fail to take that extra care that a higher quality tool doesn't need.

[CW]

[Max]

I might have missed it but I haven't seen "frustration" mentioned. I hated messing with the fence on my Craftsman table saw. I was never satisfied with the cut of cheap saw blades. I cursed drill chucks that were off center. I went through three motors on a new Craftsman radial arm saw in order to get one with tolerable runout. An upgrade in quality can mean the difference between frustration and enjoyment. BTDT

Max

[Morris Dovey]

Robatoy wrote: | On Apr 7, 10:53 am, "Morris Dovey" wrote: | || There does seem to be a relationship between quality tools and || quality of result, but I'm fairly certain that a major component || of that relationship is the level of knowledge and experience of || the person who chooses the tool. | | The variable wasn't the craftsman. The craftsman was a constant in | my argument. | The quality of the tool will help and enhance the skills of that | particular craftsman.

I might buy your argument for one specific craftsman and one specific tool.

My point is that any generalizations extended to other craftsmen and/or other tools are questionable.

| When one brings productivity into the mix, well...end of story. | But I guess it is possible to take down a 12 x 6 oak board from 6/4 | to 4/4 with a sanding block.

And yet it seems to me that a craftsman is unlikely to be a person with any love for wasting time or effort. I imagine him taking the time and expending the effort to complete the job at hand to the highest standards - but not more of either than necessary. If that's correct, then productivity /is/ a part of the mix.

-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA

[Robatoy]

[Mike Hartigan]

Accuracy and the resulting motivation are major advantages. I too, could, theoretically, get the same accuracy with a file, but I wouldn't have the patience to see the project through to completion, rendering the comparison moot.